Using Blue Andalusians to Improve Blue Ameraucana Lacing....

Discussion in 'Exhibition, Genetics, & Breeding to the Standard o' started by FreedomFarm13, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. FreedomFarm13

    FreedomFarm13 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hi there!! I was just wondering if there's anyone out there crossing blue Andalusians to their blue Ameraucanas in order to get the lacing described in the standard for Ameraucanas. If there is, I'd love to know how you're doing it, any progress you've made, and maybe see some pictures if you have any....I've looked all over byc for a thread about this and have yet to find anything anywhere. I'm wondering because I plan on getting some blue Andalusians in the Spring to cross with my blues in the hopes of getting blues with actual lacing. I'd love it if there's someone else out there considering doing this or doing it already so we can share plans/progress!! Thanks for looking, and if you know of anyone interested or already trying this, please direct them here for discussion! Thanks!!

    My blues:
    She has the closest thing to lacing that I've got. This is Nora:
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    This girl has my favorite type and a larger beard, although she's more skittish. This is Cora:
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    And last but not least, here's my 18 week old blue cockerel, Athos. He's still young, but he's looking very promising to me, and is already a great flock protector. So far, I really like his proportions...
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    The one below is from about a month ago. His beard has really improved since then. He's definitely a lap rooster though!
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    So which would you say is my best hen? They're both about 8 months old now. Neither one has laid for me yet, although I feel like Cora is getting close. She's probably just waiting until the days begin to lengthen. Hoping for some really nice egg color, but I guess we'll have to see. Let me know your plans if you want to work with Andalusians as well, and if you want, I would be very happy to hear what you think of my beauties!!

    ETA: After looking at these pictures a little closer, I'm realizing I don't really have any of Athos holding his tail at the correct 45* angle...should I be concerned about this, or will it raise a little as he gets older? I really hope I can start with blues that are as close to the standard as possible so that getting back to it after my cross to the Andalusians will be as quick and painless as possible. Hope Athos doesn't let me down. I'd hate to have to wait another year to begin this project....
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  2. miss heny

    miss heny Genetic Expert in learning Premium Member

    While I dont breed Ameraucanas I will state this now, crossing the two breeds will cause more harm then good, they have different body type, combs and earlobes. I would recommend to build body type is introduce a good quality black rooster if your blue one doesn't develope well, at this age it is hard to tell until he fills out a little. From there I would contact other blue Ameraucana breeders and attempt to get some fresh blood to have a good foundation. You can either spiral breed or line breed for this type of color, and on top of that you can also develop a line of black and splash from blue fondation. Your hen has good type and look, if I remember correctly to help with lacing breed to a blue if you can get a blue rooster you like more so then the one you own.

    Best of luck in your endeavors!
     
  3. Egghead_Jr

    Egghead_Jr Overrun With Chickens

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    It will take many generations to bring the birds back to Amerucana form with lacing. Basically you'd choose your best (closest to looking Amerucana) and breed back to the dam then take the best of that generation and bred back to dam again or another pure Amerucana. Continue in that fashion until they once again are Amerucana. The trick will be to use a blue with lacing when breeding back to Amerucana. If you use a black it may not be laced and you'll want to use birds with full lacing to breed each generation so it's got to be blue to see that. A good way to go about it would be to secure a black male Amerucana of high quality and keep him for the sire of all generations until the birds are Amerucana again. That way you'd be putting blue to his black and not washing out the coloring of the offspring by many crossings of blue to blue.

    It would be easier to look around for someone that has lacing in their flock of Amerucana already and secure eggs or a bird.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
  4. Wappoke

    Wappoke Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The genes that produce lacing in the blue andalusian are E/E Bl/bl+ Co/Co (Ml‐Pg)/(Ml‐Pg) extended black, blue, columbian, melnotic and pattern- the two latter genes are closely linked together.

    Black birds usually have melanotic and the pattern genes in their genetic make up. The blue gene does a poor job of diluting the black pigment that is expressed by melanotic and the pattern gene. If you look at self blue birds ( not lavender), they normally have a dark head and hackles- this is due to melanotic. The lace on the feather is an expression of the melanotic, pattern and columbian genes- all must be homozygous.

    I have not seen a laced ameraucana. I was doing some crossing and produced the following male and female. Both are not laced but they do have a nice black feather edge. I stopped the project.

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    If you do outcross, I will be happy to help you with the project. Just send me a PM. Count on the project taking a number of years to accomplish.

    Earlobe color (polygenic and sex linked) and egg color may be an issue. Birds that produce white eggs sometimes carry genes that inhibit the production of the blue pigment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  5. FreedomFarm13

    FreedomFarm13 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Well, that is certainly closer to laced than what I've got. I'm mainly hoping to improve the edging on my birds. If it doesn't create actual lacing that's fine. I just want better edging at least. I was a little concerned about egg color, but if I simultaneously breed for the more saturated blue egg color, I should be able to counteract any problems caused by the white eggs.
     
  6. kaywould

    kaywould Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Some photos of two hens I kept from my cross of blue ameraucana rooster and blue Andalusian hens. After 7 months they finally started laying eggs and they are beautiful blue eggs.
     
  7. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    the good thing about lacing is that the genes Ml(Melanotic), Pg(Patter gene) and Co(Columbian) are closely linked and wont segregate independently that means that breeding back the F1s to Blue Ameraucana will yield BC1 that are Ml/ml+, Pg/pg+ and Co/co+ on a blue extended black pattern, these BC1 will have better lacing than original ameraucana patterns, take the best BC1 and bree back to blue ameraucana parent or black amerucana.
     
  8. Deb T

    Deb T Out Of The Brooder

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    So Ameraucanas and Andalusions. Will they still be considered pure Ameraucanas?
     
  9. cybercat

    cybercat Chillin' With My Peeps

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    No because you crossed them offspring will be F1 crosses
     

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