Variability in Chick Down of Black Chicks - Genetic Clues?

Discussion in 'Exhibition, Genetics, & Breeding to the SOP' started by AUChickenGal, May 18, 2019.

  1. AUChickenGal

    AUChickenGal Songster

    348
    447
    181
    Apr 15, 2016
    AL
    This is purely a curiosity/academic question, as it will be months before I can begin to have solid answers, but I wondered if anyone here might have insight.

    I have two chicks who hatched yesterday from Favaucana (yes, I realize that’s just a fancy mixed breed) eggs ordered from My Pet Chicken. The eggs came from a breeder in North Carolina. I was told the eggs could/would be an assortment from a BBS and/or a wheaten/blue wheaten/splash wheaten flock. Clearly, I “lost” the lottery and ended up with two black chicks from the BBS flock.

    Now, MPC writes on their website that the Favaucana chicks they sell are F1, but all the eggs I received were sage green, so I know my chicks are AT LEAST F2. I know that means their genetics are even less predictable. I’m curious, though, whether their very different chick down offers any clues as to what they might be carrying.

    The first chick has some gold mottling on his/her head and a gold/cream colored underbelly. This chick also has minimal, if any, muff/ beard feathering. The second chick has a much fluffier face and a white/silver underbelly.

    CE6CDE4F-8A00-458D-B676-BE672775DC95.jpeg

    0310559A-3E64-422E-933B-17D95165CA65.jpeg

    D1F1828E-C2D8-44E6-95E0-D073A1F6E044.jpeg

    Anybody here have insights to offer?
     
  2. AMERAUCANAS4REAL

    AMERAUCANAS4REAL Crossing the Road

    2,843
    39,366
    987
    Nov 8, 2017
    Wisconsin
    My Coop
    Doesn't yellow feathers mean it is gold based while white means silver based?
    I could be wrong and am wondering this myself.
     
  3. AUChickenGal

    AUChickenGal Songster

    348
    447
    181
    Apr 15, 2016
    AL
    That was my first guess. Though I could have sworn I read somewhere that BBS Ameraucanas and Salmon Faverolles are both silver based, so, if that's the case, the gold chick is a bit of a head scratcher!
     
  4. nicalandia

    nicalandia Crowing

    7,139
    1,403
    356
    Jul 16, 2009
    This is not the case in Extended Black chick down(at it's Extended Black Heterozygotes),

    let me try to find the research paper where it says that any yellow parts of the Extended black chick down is due to melanocyte migration rather than if they are gold or silver based
     
  5. AMERAUCANAS4REAL

    AMERAUCANAS4REAL Crossing the Road

    2,843
    39,366
    987
    Nov 8, 2017
    Wisconsin
    My Coop
    Thanks. I was wondering about that. Your point makes sense since my black d'Anvers seem gold based and I have white breasted chicks. :thumbsup
     
  6. nicalandia

    nicalandia Crowing

    7,139
    1,403
    356
    Jul 16, 2009
    Okey, I found it, but it's actually a reference of a previous work, here is a scan of a page of the book "Poultry Breeding and Genetics" by R.D Crawford.

    SilverGold1.jpg

    But as stated by the reference and on Page(79) of GENETIC CONTROL OF MELANIN PIGMENTATION IN THE FOWL J. Robert Smyth, Jr.(Same reference used by the book) https://www.poultryscience.org/docs/pba/1952-2003/1976/1976 Smyth.pdf

    Excerpt from the research paper

    "Fortunately, as it does in adult plumage, Co has a positive effect on silver-gold differentiation (Malone and Smyth, 1975b) 0 The addition of a single Co allele enhances this difference in the non-brown, lighter "ground" areas of the chick down. In combination with wheaten, gold intensity is increased by Co to the point where S-s+ sex-linked crosses provide readily identifiable sex identification."

    What this means? That E/eWh, Co/co+, s+/- Mh/m+ females will have enhanced gold/red pigmentation as chicks(But only in combination of Heterozygous Wheaten, Columbian, Gold and in this case Mahogany boosting the effect), but E/E co+/co+ s+/- females can't be distinguished from E/E co+/co+, S/- females

    Here check these black sex links chicks with such combination(RIR Rooster over Barred Rock Hen: Heterozygous Wheaten, Columbian, Mahogany and hemizygous gold), in this case, you could cover the males black head-spot and still notice the difference between the reddish/Brown face of the pullets and the yellow/white face of the males



    In the case of the OP, the chicks are E/eWh, but lack Columbian so this will not apply, also since they are the cross of a Faverolle rooster(Wheaten based Silver) over Ameraucana hens, the F1 pullets will be Silver based so no chance of sexing them from the S/s+ males even if it was possible(not due to E/eWh co+/co+ combination)
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  7. AMERAUCANAS4REAL

    AMERAUCANAS4REAL Crossing the Road

    2,843
    39,366
    987
    Nov 8, 2017
    Wisconsin
    My Coop
    Thanks.
     
  8. nicalandia

    nicalandia Crowing

    7,139
    1,403
    356
    Jul 16, 2009
    Updated the post with more info and references
     
    AMERAUCANAS4REAL likes this.
  9. AUChickenGal

    AUChickenGal Songster

    348
    447
    181
    Apr 15, 2016
    AL
    Wow! Thank you, @nicalandia, for taking the time to put all that information together for me. I've always been fascinated with equine color genetics, and I thought THAT was complicated until I started studying chickens. :lau
     
    AMERAUCANAS4REAL likes this.
  10. nicalandia

    nicalandia Crowing

    7,139
    1,403
    356
    Jul 16, 2009
    Yes, Avian feather color genetics is substantially more complex than equine color genetics
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by: