What’s changing my Lav Orp roo??

[CamTheChknKeeper]

I put a much younger (1 year old) lavender Orpington roo in with my first guy last year; they squabbled and Very occasionally the older one (nearly 10 years old now) bullied the younger, but they both crowed and strutted etc especially in front of the hens’ pen next door.

This fall was the younger one’s first molt; and now that they have both begun to regrow their tails, there’s a very obvious difference between them!

The younger one seems to have changed some of their gender?? characteristics!

They don’t crow anymore and their tail feathers are growing out more like a hen than a roo.
The sounds he makes are sort of a very quiet chortle. Not resembling a crow at all.
Most surprisingly, the comb (on top of his head) is very much smaller!
It’s not injured at all, but the front of his comb is very reduced, as if it never developed; but before the molt he had just as big and long, many-pointed a comb as my older guy!

Also yes, my younger roo seems suddenly much more submissive to the older one.

Has anyone got any experience with this?? I’m really surprised by it.

PS here’s a picture from this past winter. The elder roo is closer to the camera

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Has anyone got any experience with this?? I’m really surprised by it.

No experience specifically but some anecdotal discussion..

So hens can have an ovary damaged (presumably a tumor etc) and can cause males specific feathering and all.. it will not fertilize eggs, though parthenogenesis is possible in unfertilized eggs.. embryo's will not make it to term.

Now, on the flip side.. I have harvested a cockerel who had different size wattles and surprisingly he also had different size testis.

So I might have to wonder if there was something going on internally. And I would like to see the new feathers if possible.

10 years is quite a feet for any rooster, but particularly good for an Orp! Lovely fella's!

 

[CamTheChknKeeper]

So I might have to wonder if there was something going on internally. And I would like to see the new feathers if possible.

10 years is quite a feet for any rooster, but particularly good for an Orp! Lovely fella's!

I’ll get a pic of the new feathers in the morning, thank you!

 

[CamTheChknKeeper]

So I might have to wonder if there was something going on internally. And I would like to see the new feathers if possible.

10 years is quite a feet for any rooster, but particularly good for an Orp! Lovely fella's!

AhA see I think I was jumping to the oddest possible conclusions. Maybe he’s just uncomfortable right now?

In these pics he just seems super unhappy, which always makes me worry so much.

You can see he’s definitely a roo but he’s carrying himself entirely differently. If you click on the pic you’ll see both of them to compare.

 

[FunClucks]

No personal experience with this, but I've heard that if you have two roos together, and one is dominant, the other can be submissive, and his hormones actually don't develop, or don't develop fully because he's around the dominant roo. Kind of like a self defense mechanism. Once you remove the dominant roo, the submissive roo matures seemingly overnight, and will often become more dominant. I wonder if something similar is happening here...

 

[CamTheChknKeeper]

No personal experience with this, but I've heard that if you have two roos together, and one is dominant, the other can be submissive, and his hormones actually don't develop, or don't develop fully because he's around the dominant roo. Kind of like a self defense mechanism. Once you remove the dominant roo, the submissive roo matures seemingly overnight, and will often become more dominant. I wonder if something similar is happening here...

Thank you

 

[defazzy]

Reading your post, I was initially thinking of an eclipse molt. Some chickens, like junglefowl and gamefowl, have eclipse molts, where they molt into off-season dull plumage and look like hens. But I've never heard of eclipse molts in Orpingtons.

The second thought I had was hen feathering. It's a genetic condition where the roosters look like hens. However, they still behave like roosters, and you mentioned behavior changes. And birds that have the Hf-gene are born with it, like Sebrights.

Now I'm really on the same path as @FunClucks. The plumage and hen-like behavior are due to high estrogen levels. In chickens, estrogen is made from testosterone, which your roo has for sure. Maybe the suppression causes higher estrogen levels. I'm really interested to see if it would change if you put them apart.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

AhA see I think I was jumping to the oddest possible conclusions. Maybe he’s just uncomfortable right now?

In these pics he just seems super unhappy, which always makes me worry so much.

You can see he’s definitely a roo but he’s carrying himself entirely differently. If you click on the pic you’ll see both of them to compare.

He does look uncomfortable.. as noted by the classic head held tight to chest.

You are right to be concerned, IMO.

 

[FunClucks]

Are you sure your roo isn't sick? He does look uncomfortable - maybe he's in pain?

Also if he has some reproductive problem, his hormones could be out of whack, and he could not be feeling well.

 

[CamTheChknKeeper]

Thanks everyone!

I’m going to watch him carefully and see how he’s feeling tomorrow. We have suddenly colder weather here at the north edge of Pennsylvania so I’ve added some cracked corn to their feed today.

If he’s not better soon I’ll have to find a vet who does birds. We can’t afford Cornell though.