what colors r my mini rex mom and babies? (new pics and a lot of them)

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by therealsilkiechick, Jul 11, 2010.

  1. therealsilkiechick

    therealsilkiechick ShowGirl Queen

    Jul 18, 2007
    Northwestern, pa
    i bred my tort buck peanut to one of my does opal. i think opal is an opal otter but not sure(she has like a lavander/choc main over all color with cream/tan markings/belly ect.). well she had 5 babies a tort, 3 blacks(2 were peanuts so we lost them [​IMG] ) and this odd colored baby which looks to be an otter or tort pattern also. hubby thinks he is possible lynx color i think he looks closer to red maybe because he reminds me of like a diluted castor color. [​IMG] so what color do u all think they r? i would love to know for sure so i know which colors to breed them to for futer generations. i have never seen this color before and this is opals first litter.

    this is dad peanut
    [​IMG]

    mom opal
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and their baby buck
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    my other question is i also bred peanut to my tort doe honey bunn she looks just like him,lol and she had 9 torts. [​IMG] how do u tell a normal tort from like a blue tort? when babies were smaller i noticed some looked more blue actually looking at the pics the top pic all the way left one still looks more blue or darker than the others still. she had 9 babies i can't tell any of them apart they all look identical now but was curious what the difference was to tell them apart. this is honey's first litter also, all the babies r 4 weeks old now but opals r 4 days older and alot bigger.

    this is honey's kits these r the bucks
    [​IMG]

    these r the does
    [​IMG]

    thanks for any help!!
    silkie
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  2. PitterPaws

    PitterPaws Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Don't know what that color would be called But they sure are cute! [​IMG]
     
  3. dbunni

    dbunni Chillin' With My Peeps

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    First , Dad is a tort also ... from the pix it is hard to tell the shade, but looks to be black.

    Torts come in a variety of colors: black, chocolate, blue & lilac. Black is the darkest, often called the general tort by some. Choc has a brown tint to it. Blue is the dilute of black and is a grayish color. Lilac is the chocolate dilute and has a grayish base with brown tinting. Confused yet? Don't be worried, even the most experienced breeder can mess them up. The coloration/pattern around the nose and ears will be the color.

    The baby pictured ... is an agouti of some form, not a tort. The eye rings, white inside ears, white belly, probably white or cream under the tail. Check your ARBA standard color descriptions for MR against the rings present to figure it out. Because of the shortened shaft, MR are a challenge when it comes to the other colors!

    Good luck ... they are cuties!
     
  4. Tinted

    Tinted Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Apr 17, 2010
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    Buck- Black Tort.
    Doe- Opal
    Kit #1- Looks like a Red, but may not be.
     
  5. dbunni

    dbunni Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Nov 15, 2009
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    The baby is definately not a red or orange. But then it is not anything else according to the current ARBA standards for MR. The eye circles and ear insides place it in the agoutis (as the Angoras refer to them). The only color standards that call for that particular pattern are the lynx, opal, chin, castor if I read them correctly. The red color should look similar to the Thrianta with a strong red following all the way to the underside with a slight variation for the belly and base of tail for cream.

    When we start to mix color genetics, uniquely colored animals appear. We see this in many breeds where a lot of colors are acceptable. In the angoras it is a challenge to figure out colors also. The kit is really cute and will make a wonderful pet. Color doesn't change the love it will receive from a family. But it is one I would not put back into a breeding program. I have released many a baby for questionable color even though the body was nice.

    Love the baby ...

    DustiBunni Rabbitry
    Home of top Angoras ... plus a few other breeds ... lots of them ... ... anybody want to help groom this weekend?
     
  6. Bunnylady

    Bunnylady POOF Goes the Pooka

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    Nov 27, 2009
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    Let's see if I can help you sort out these colors.

    First of all, there is no such thing as an opal otter. It's a total impossibility, cannot happen. There are 3 possibilities for the basic pattern: Agouti, tan (which includes otters and martens), and self. Agouti is the most dominant, then tan, then self.

    Agouti patterned animals have light colored areas on the inside of the ears, around the eyes, around the nostrils, under the jaw, on the belly, and on the bottom of the tail. The hairs on their bodies are ticked, or banded, being a dark color on the tip, then a lighter color in the middle, and then another color (usually a blue-grey) closest to the skin.

    Self colored animals do not have the light colored areas inside the ears, around the eyes, etc. . Their body hairs are pretty much one color from tip to root. Some genetic selfs do have more than one color on a hairshaft, but it lacks the clear banding of an agouti.

    Tan patterned animals have the body color of a self, and the eye rings, ear lacings, etc. of an agouti.

    The classic agouti patterned animal is the (more or less) wild-type color, the Chestnut Agouti. Rex rabbits have their own special "take" on the chestnut, which is called the Castor. A chestnut has black on the tip of the hair shaft, followed by an orange band, with blue-grey at the base. Opal is the dilute of chestnut, with blue-grey and fawn replacing the black and orange.

    If your doe's top color is really lilac/chocolate rather than blue-grey, she's a Lynx, not an Opal. Lynx is the dilute chocolate version of Chestnut.

    Blue torts are lighter, not darker, than regular torts. In areas like the face and ears, where the dark color is most concentrated, the dark color is a medium blue-grey, not nearly black like on a normal tort. The body color of a blue tort is fawn, rather than the rich orange of a full-color tort.

    I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with dbunni on the color of the baby. It obviously has both the non-extension gene and the agouti gene going on, which in my book makes it an orange. The MR breed standard doesn't list orange as a recognised color; the closest you can get is Red. Some people might call this a red, and a judge might accept it as such (while marking it down for poor color) or some judges might even DQ it as an unshowable color.

    Dbunni, I breed Jersey Woolys, which are simplicity itself when compared to what I consider the "real" angoras. My hat's off to you!
     
  7. dbunni

    dbunni Chillin' With My Peeps

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    hey BunnyLady ... JWs ... how kool! I so enjoy taking care of the Wooly in our house. So little time, so much love! He is used for 4-h demos and breed ids.

    There are a couple people in Ohio playing with the Orange gene for MR. They are using the Thriantas as a base. This baby reminds me of a bad thrianta youth. In time, sometimes, the color will darken. But not enough to pass muster on an ARBA table. At the shadings it has right now it is an easy DQ. I have seen a few reds throw off the table (MR) with the same coloration as this youth. Since Angoras are usually last you have time to watch other breeds and have friends who breed MR. Anyway ... I wonder if there is somebody in her area working with them too?

    As for angoras ... anytime you want to come over and help choose colors ... or groommmm... please, please come on over. Every once in a while a new one crops up that sends us all reading. Like ... explain where the Lynx came from my blacks? Yea, somebody lied on that pedigree somewhere! He is neat, and did some major winning for me. But still befuddles the mind where he came from! I always tell people the only ones I am truly confident are ... are the basics ... REW ... since black can be steel and blue can be lilac and torts! And somethimes it doesn't present until the second or third wool coat comes in!

    BTW ... I have otter giants now! Talk about a unique color with wool. Going for the COD maybe next year. Bodies are solid, color good. We have black & chocolate down. Working on blue & lilac! A full range of otters around here ...
     
  8. NewHopePoultry

    NewHopePoultry Overrun With Chickens

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  9. therealsilkiechick

    therealsilkiechick ShowGirl Queen

    Jul 18, 2007
    Northwestern, pa
    wow lots of good info and help. [​IMG] thank you all for trying to help me figure this out i really appreciate it and yep i'm confused but i'm working on figureing it out with all ur help. [​IMG] love my bungies everyone of them and i love to learn what i can about them so i'm enjoying reading ya alls replies.

    even if the odd baby was a nonstandard color i would still use him for a futer breeder because i love his color and markings and i'd like to have more his colors even if just for me for pets just i'd not breed him with my standered color rex in my main breeding pens. i'd use him in with my project pens i'm working on for plush lops and velveteen lops or i'd put him with like my self black rex doe and do a project pen see how it worked that way. he is my fav of my heard [​IMG] so he will always have a forever home with me even if i didn't breed him, he has stollen my heart and is such a snuggle bug i could never part with him.

    i forgot i had the current arba standard book i will check it see what i can figure out too going by descriptions and pics. i agree i think peanut is a black tort also. cuz my tort dutch r so much lighter than him i think they would be what u r saying is blue tort. so i will check all my other torts and see if i can tell what tort they r also. i can't remember what peanuts ped says so i will look for it but opals ped has in it castor, red, rew, choc, opal, lynx and lilac if that helps any, lol. it says mostly reds and lilacs though. i have never seen an orange or red mr in person or orange even in pics so i don't know which he would resemble closer to even tell ya but the red pics i saw he does resemble alot. i do have a choc and a lynx rex i can take pics of to help compair if that helps any. tomarrow i will go out and get them out and take some close up pics and check opals bands cuz i can't remember what color they r. i have not seen bands on the baby yet. see if better pics can help ya figure out what her and baby r. if my lynx is standard color as it is suppost to be then neither is lynx but baby would be closer to the color than her. far as i know noone here has ever heard of an orange mr but there is people trying to breed for reds here. i'll see what i can do for better pics and descriptions for ya all.
    thanks again!!
    silkie
     
  10. Mandalina

    Mandalina Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 1, 2009
    Savannah,MO
    ohhh my goodness look at those babies!!!!!!! i love 'em!!!!!!!
     

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