What to do about neighbor's dog killing your chickens.

Discussion in 'Predators and Pests' started by Jungleexplorer, Mar 8, 2015.

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  1. Jungleexplorer

    Jungleexplorer Chillin' With My Peeps

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    There are many threads on BYC devoted to this topic. Here are my thoughts on the issue.

    The question is not what you should do if your neighbor’s dog attacks your livestock (chickens). The real question is, what should your neighbor do?
    This question of what should a person do if their animal damages another person's property or person is not a new question. It is an age old question that has existed since people started raising animals. For thousands of years people have raised animals in agrarian cultures and societies around the world. In the US, back when the US was mostly an agrarian culture, there were cultural rules that existed for dealing with these kinds of problems. These rules where founded and based upon the ancient Israeli constitution, back when the Nation of Israel was primarily an agrarian culture. I could quote all the laws from that constitution but it would make this post very long and boring. The basic idea of these laws, was that the owner of the offending animal bore the responsibility of taking action to make amends for their animal’s actions. It also stated that if an owner did not take appropriate measures to prevent their animal from causing destruction to another person’s property, the owner would face severe criminal and civil penalties that could be as sever as the death penalty if their animal killed another person. These laws placed all the burden of control and responsibility of an animal's actions on the owner.
    In the US, back when we were an agrarian culture, everyone understood these laws and lived by them, even though they were not actually part of US laws. They simply followed them because they realized that they made perfect sense. Bottom line, they had respect for one another and realized that they were responsible for their animals actions. Unfortunately, the industrial culture that the US has become now is one in which people show no respect for their neighbor and have no understanding and respect for the value livestock. Many modern industrial American dog owners are conceded, prideful, self centered and selfish, with no regard for anyone else or their property. They have no idea of the natural agrarian laws (country law) that governed the US for 200 years. They consider themselves and their selfish desires to be the only thing of importance in the world. They also consider their pets (dogs) to have almost human qualities and view them more as children then they do an animal that they own for their entertainment and pleasure. This is why we have such problems when it comes to these situations where some modern industrial Americans pet kills an agrarian American's livestock. The agrarian American naturally expects the modern industrial American to live by the law of the country and show them proper respect by do the right thing and taking responsibility for their animals action. The modern industrial American on the other hand could careless about his neighbor or his property and only has respect for himself and his property.
    So, how should a person handle a situation where their dog attacks someone else animals. Let me give you an example from personal experience about how to handle a situation where your dog causes problems with your neighbors. This is the proper way to handle respond to this situation.


    I owned two hunting dogs, a Golden Retriever and an Irish Setter. My wife and children loved these dogs as pets. Next to my farm there is a stretch of pasture that cattle are put on to graze a couple times a year. I keep my dogs are penned, but my wife likes to let them out to run with her when she goes walking, even though I told here repeatedly not to let them out, for fear they might run the neighbors cows. One day she let them out not knowing they had put cows on the land next door and they took off after the cows. She came in all worried about what the owner of the cows would do if he saw them chasing the cows. My response was, “He will shoots them both dead and I will support him. And if I they killed one of his cows, I will shoot them myself and pay him for the cow”. My wife was like, “You are horrible!”. “No I am not, I responded. I told you not to let those hunting dogs out of their pen. But you keep doing it because you want to walk with them. If they die, it will be your fault. Do you remember when those neighbors dog (different neighbor) came on our land and killed 13 of our chickens and you were spitting mad and ordered me to tell the neighbor to keep their dogs penned or tied up or we would shoot them the next time we saw them our land, and our neighbors got all defensive and mad at us and refused to control their dogs because they “Did not like keeping their dogs tied up”. Now the table is reversed and you are acting the same way those neighbors acted when I went to talk to them. I am only treating our neighbor they way you wanted our other neighbors to treat us when their dogs attacked our livestock. You thought they were horrible for not taking responsibility for what their dogs did, and now you are not wanting to take responsibility for what our dogs are doing because you let them out of their pen.”
    You see this whole thing is about following the golden rule of treating other people the way we would want to be treated. It is not always easy, but it is the right things to do. I wish to goodness that this modern industrial American society would gain some common sense and would follow the golden rule and respect their neighbor and their property more they love their stupid pets. Sadly, I doubt that will ever happen, and since most laws are made by these same people with warped values, I expect civil laws to become increasingly less favorable to agrarian culture.
    Unfortunately, we do not live in a culture that respects the Golden Rule anymore. And since the law has become so convoluted and disassociated with these basic and sensable rules of agrarian culture, now we have to resort to taking matters into our own hands.


    That leaves us with the 3S rule to defend our livestock. As the founders so aptly put it, we are endowed with certain inalienable right. I believe defense of one's livestock is also an inalienable right against which no laws can justifiably be made. All agrarian cultures that have ever existed agree on this point. The 3S rule is the most effective. If you don’t know what the 3S rules is, I will spell it out for you. SHOOT, SHOVEL & SHUTUP. I am not saying that this a solution for every situation. But, if a dog attacks your chickens and it turns out that the dogs owner is one of these modern industrial Americans that are arrogant, disrespectful and self centered that refuses to follow the Golden Rule, you have no choice but to just shoot the dog quietly and dispose of it and never talk about it with anyone.

    P.S. The Benjamin Marauder PCP Air Rifle in the 22 caliber will kill almost any dog and makes no more noise then a spit wad. You could shoot it outside all day with your neighbors in their back yard and they would never know it. Just saying.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
    Amri and WYNot like this.
  2. AnimalGuyAdam

    AnimalGuyAdam New Egg

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    That Humor at the end [​IMG]
     
  3. CrazyTalk

    CrazyTalk Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I'm really getting sick of this sort of crap - the "Oh no, the city people are coming out and their dogs are kiling my chickens" - the insinuation that the country was this wonderful idyllic place where this sort of stuff never happened. Dogs have been killing chickens for as long people have had chickens. People have been jerks as long as their have been people.


    Every single dog issue I've had has been born-and-bred country folk. City people fence their yards and keep their dogs on leashes.

    There's no need to start class warfare threads on here.
     
  4. Jungleexplorer

    Jungleexplorer Chillin' With My Peeps

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    This is not about class warfare, this is about how an owner should act when their pet kills their neighbors livestock. So I will ask you. If your dog kills my chickens, are you going to follow the golden rule and do the right thing and permanently pen or chain your dog or have it put down and pay me for my loss with out me taking you to court? Simple answer. Yes or No. Or if I kill your dog while it is attacking my chickens, are you going to support me or try to press charges?
     
  5. CrazyTalk

    CrazyTalk Chillin' With My Peeps

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    oh c'mon.


    Can you seriously, with a strait face - say this isn't about class?

    Quote: I am the modern industrial American - and we're never going to run into an issue because my acreage is heavily fenced, both electrical and physical, and neither your dog is getting in, nor mine is getting out. Mine's also trained to leave birds alone.
     
  6. wyoDreamer

    wyoDreamer Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I agree with asking people to take responsibility for their pets. It is your responsibility to keep your dog safe and at home.

    I personally am sick and tired of having neighbors move in and let their dogs run free. And it is always - not my dog, it was so-and-so's dog that caused the problem. Or, if so-and-so would keep his dog home, mine would not leave the yard.

    At our last place, we had four neighbors who let their dogs run loose. One bought a german shepherd pup and "wanted his dog to be a dog" so no training, no discipline and no containment. The dog was never leashed, he sat there in his lawnchair and watched his dog chase cars. We had words one day when the dog charged us on our ATV's. he went on a 6 week vacation and left the dog outside, loose, with a bowl of food and his daughter stopped by once a week to check on him. One of the neighbors ended up taking him in. That dog died in a ditch by my friends house - it froze to death one -20 degree night. The owner was called, he came and created quite a scene - throwing himself on the carcass and crying hysterically. Where was he when the dog needed an owner to care for him?

    When we moved in, we went to all the neighbors and gave them our phone numbers. Our dogs were fenced in, but our Irish setter loved to bark. The neighbors were all instructed to call us if the barking was a problem and we would find a solution. We never had a call or complaint from anyone.
     
  7. wyoDreamer

    wyoDreamer Chillin' With My Peeps

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    In my opinion, those people who let their dogs run loose have no class. But that is a totally different kind of class than you are talking about.

    Quick description of the three who let their dogs run loose:
    1. disabled vet, grew up in a big city
    2. grew up on ranch in Nebraska, married to computer specialist in the Air Force
    3. grew up in rural Mississippi, enlisted in the Air Force, wife works in a bank, he does security
    and add
    #4. middle class, wife with disabled child, and grew up in agriculture, trained horses as a hobby. His dog had pups, two of which were shop by a rancher a mile down the road for chasing their horses. But, of course, their dog never left the yard ... how do I show sarcasm?

    Editted to add:
    Sorry, I am out of line. This thread hit a nerve I guess. I am done.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  8. Jungleexplorer

    Jungleexplorer Chillin' With My Peeps

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    You did not answer the question. The question was "IF" this occurred, not when it occurs. But I understand you being evasive and refusing to answer the question, because in your heart you know that you would not do the right thing. You would not value your neighbor and his property more then you love your pet. That is totally my point.

    I never once mentioned "City People", nor was I talking about city people. I was talking about agrarian culture and modern industrial culture. You are the one who made it a city people vs a country folk issue. Honestly, I lump the modern American country folk right in with the modern industrial American. For the most part, most country folk do not follow the golden rule either anymore.

    Let me ask you another question. What life experience are you basing your opinions off of? Take this statement of yours for example,

    "the insinuation that the country was this wonderful idyllic place where this sort of stuff never happened."

    Based off of what knowledge and experience do you make this assertive judgment of old country life? Have you ever lived in an old country community? Actually, have ever really lived anywhere other then your own little modern industrial micro-culture? If you have not, then you cannot make any kind of authoritative statement about a culture you have no knowledge of. In short, you have no idea of what your are talking about.

    I am glad that you fence your dogs in, but my point is about what your response would be "IF" one day your pets did cause destruction to your neighbors property. How would you respond? Would you respect your neighbor more then your pet? It's a simple question.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  9. CrazyTalk

    CrazyTalk Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I'd appreciate it if you'd stop making ignorant assumptions about me, and stop being a bigot - this isn't the place for that.

    If my farm dog gets off my farm, and injures someone elses livestock, I will do whatever the law requires. That's not going to happen though, because I'm a responsible farmer, and I fence my acreage. Prevention is better than after-the-fact.
     
  10. Fred's Hens

    Fred's Hens Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

    OK, folks. we're done here. This conversation has drifted from an adult conversation, conducted in a mature way, about a very adult subject. So we're done.
     
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