Wheaten and black copper Marans cross

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by greathorse, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. greathorse

    greathorse Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,065
    14
    191
    Oct 1, 2008
    Northern Colorado
    I have a pen of pullets that has both Wheaten and black Copper in them. There is only one rooster and he is a Wheaten. I have not yet put my breeding pens together but am starting to get a nice bunch of eggs. If I hatch these will I be able to tell which are Wheaten x Wheaten from Wheaten x BC? I have no interest in selling eggs or birds until I get my breeding pens complete, but just wondering what I will be getting and if I will know the differnece from coloring?

    Thanks in advance for any assistance. Fertility is not great at this time which is one of the reasons they are still in one pen, but I have noticed that it has improved lately so thinking I might hatch a few of these.
     
  2. onthespot

    onthespot Deluxe Dozens

    7,187
    21
    271
    Mar 29, 2008
    Riverside/Norco, CA
    Everything that hatches light colored would be pure wheaten. Everything that hatches out dark would be copper black split to wheaten, which is fine for laying, but very bad for breeding. The wheatens will jump out at you at hatching. VERY easy to tell apart
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  3. greathorse

    greathorse Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,065
    14
    191
    Oct 1, 2008
    Northern Colorado
    Hey thanks for that. Could I assume that 100% of the chicks that have wheaten coloring are pure Wheaten? I am not doubting just confirming that if that is true I could breed wheaten without worry. That would be nice

    I could then just give my son who has been wanting some dark layers but cannot have roosters in town some of my crosses, that is great.
     
  4. onthespot

    onthespot Deluxe Dozens

    7,187
    21
    271
    Mar 29, 2008
    Riverside/Norco, CA
    That is correct! The light ones you keep, the dark ones go to your son. Easy peasy!
     
  5. berkeleysprings

    berkeleysprings Chillin' With My Peeps

    i am shivering at the thought ,if anyone cares ,,,, id say dont mix the two ever for all kinds of reasons also let your
    pure hens rest a month befor hatching any eggs........rooster yucky stuff stays with them a long time lol !
     
  6. greathorse

    greathorse Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,065
    14
    191
    Oct 1, 2008
    Northern Colorado
    Ok I undstand fully all the issues about how long to keep them separate to make sure the eggs are pure bred. Frankly have never referred to semen as yucky stuff but to each their own.

    So give me the list of reasons not to hatch the chicks, breed the Wheaten and not breed the Black Copper. My entire question has to do with whether or not I have an issue identfying the variety without any issue. I am not a student of genetics so really just asking from a genetic standpoint that is all.
     
  7. Mahonri

    Mahonri Urban Desert Chicken Enthusiast Premium Member

    30,361
    151
    446
    May 14, 2008
    North Phoenix
    My Coop
    I believe if you have a wheaten roo in there, the only chicks that you'd be able to tell at hatch that would be pure would be the light colored wheatens.

    That said,

    Why would you even allow the cross?????

    Oh, and semen is what keeps our world moving forward, it gives us future generations... not 'yucky stuff'.
     
  8. millebantam

    millebantam Chillin' With My Peeps

    698
    9
    141
    Nov 24, 2008
    Little Rhody
    A lot of reasoning has to figure into your long term goals. Will you ever be inclined to raise a line of really good BCM's with good conformation and possibly exhibit some later on? If you mix them up now, it's almost certain that you will eventually produce some very nice BCM's that carry the Wheaton genetics. You will probably want to keep some of them, especially if the egg color is outstanding. You may end up with many of these kicking around for years, but you must understand that no matter how nice they turn out you must never use them in a serious BCM project, ever. The temptation will be there, but also the chance that the wheaton cross birds will spoil the pure BCM flock by throwing off colored birds, sports, wrong eye color, off colored shanks, white feathering, and many other countless "bumps in the road".

    Now even if you choose to never sell birds or hatching eggs, there may come a time when you may give a couple to someone who wants to play around with a BCM or dark egg layer project. once those birds leave your hands, there is no telling when they, or offspring of them will pop up in the already way too limited and "poluted" American BCM gene pool. More of these crossed birds simply perpetuate more problems for BCM breeders down the road.

    Now if you are strict and keep them all to yourself, always looking at them as crosses, no matter how they turn out, then all is well and enjoy the heck out of them and breed away! Just my 2 pennies from a breeder who has a flock of BCM's and is working to make them better. They are your birds and you have the right to enjoy them any way that you see fit.
     
  9. greathorse

    greathorse Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,065
    14
    191
    Oct 1, 2008
    Northern Colorado
    Mutts get produced every day. I would consider the BC Wheaten cross Mutts. As I stated before I have a pen of pullets that at this time are not set up in breeding pens and they are now starting to lay some nice sized eggs. It is cold here and setting up a bunch of different breeding pens creates some chore time that I have not yet invested in.

    The question was not asked to be one of opinion about my breeding program, the question had to do with whether or not they are all mutts or if the Wheaten are in fact guarunteed to be Wheaten and the dark chicks are mutts. If they are all Mutts that is fine with me I just want to know the real answer.

    Still trying to figure out why the concept of crossing a couple of strains would give one the creeps (shivers)

    Thanks
     
  10. greathorse

    greathorse Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,065
    14
    191
    Oct 1, 2008
    Northern Colorado
    Quote:Thanks nice response, the one element that does worry me I guess is if I gave some of these to someone and they started breeding for BC I never would. I understand the mess I could get into with the BC's. There really arent that many eggs and my son for sure (if they hatch) would not be breedign them that is for sure.
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by