When it all goes horribly horribly wrong. Dogs and goats.

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by HnkyDnkyZZFarm, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. HnkyDnkyZZFarm

    HnkyDnkyZZFarm Chillin' With My Peeps

    145
    24
    68
    Jan 2, 2016
    Northern California
    Long story short, our goat boy is down an ear and has some decent puncture wounds in his thigh. I'm competent but old school in wound care. saline wash, blue lotion, styptic powder and penicillin, but I am VERY receptive to suggestions and experiences and if there's something better I could be using or more I could be doing please let me know. I've read I should be watching for heat and puss pockets, I haven't shaved the leg or wrapped it. He's moving about fairly normally and eating stable, not as quickly or as enthusiastically as usual, but consistently. I've added a goat feed and we do half alfalfa to half hay free access minerals/ baking soda and they've got really good pre-spring graze. Very little or no swelling close to 24 hours later.

    The girls are a bit shaken up, when I came into the pen to intervene I left the gate open and they got out and into another pen. They came back for their friend after the dog was contained. They've been yelling all day long at the fence for someone to come sit with them. That and they are really enthusiastic about grain. Everyone's pretty shaken up but as of today, no heat no swelling. The girls are about a month bred and I'm really hoping this doesn't affect them too deeply.

    The dog.

    Hoo boy.

    He's always had a habit of chasing movement, cars passing the fence, the goat pen, the cat, but he's never broken a fence line before. When he's gotten out by accident he would sit by the gate looking guilty till someone put him back inside. Had never broken skin before, had good recall at least 80% of the time. We used the "house" command as a redirect, crate trained, nilif, hours upon hours upon hours have been put into training this dog. This is the dog that will climb ladders for peanut butter and walked beside the stroller on leash like a side car when my daughter was tiny. SO MUCH WORK! to be completely out the window when it matters most and to have that faith completely eradicated. Fence lines were sacred - or so I thought. The goats have been in their pen for about a year with no problems outside of fence line running from this dog. He squeezed between a 3ft overlap in the fencing and into the goat pen.

    Zero recall, it took three strategies to get the dog contained because I wasn't about to get within range of the dog till I was sure I had clean grab. I dumped the water barrel on them, didn't work I couldn't use my thumbs effectively between his back teeth without getting bit myself no sticks thick enough to use to pry him off within reach, although I was able to get the spot under his tounge that had previously been effective - not at all this time. I finally had to resort to crude measures and make him choose between breathing and continuing his rampage. That I even had to consider my safety so seriously while handling the dog that sees himself as my lancelot dog was SOBERING. That I had to balance my safety and potentially the goats life, just for an instant and it cost additional injury to the goat because I had to hesitate- My inner farm girl hangs her head in shame.


    Being a well trusted family friend up until now has our little funny farm a bit divided at the moment. We don't have the resources to bring the yard fences from 4' to 6' tall. The pens are 6ft but the dig marks at the overlap show so much premeditation - because he was through that fence faster than I could catch my breath to yell, and he had a good head start on me - I had to run 50 yards to get to the pen and in that time the ear was beyond repair. Gone. He was eating it like a drunk with potato skins on the last day of 1999. I'll be fixing fences today even though the dog will not be allowed to roam freely even in the fenced yard any longer. Guarantees are out the window. I framed the front fences and dig proofed them last summer when he got fixated on the duck pen- but never broke the fence line, just ran it incessantly and I wanted to be 110% sure the smaller animals were well protected. Once the fences were secured we figured he lost interest. We are "those people" right now scratching our heads when at the end of the day, a dog is a dog is a dog. :-(
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. cavemanrich

    cavemanrich Overrun With Chickens

    3,104
    760
    276
    Apr 6, 2014
    Melrose Park Illinois
    LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE BETWEEN A STONE AND A HARD SPOT.....
    Don't know what to do with the predatory dog, and I have NO suggestions like getting rid of him.. [​IMG] You must keep him contained and away at all times from now on..
    As to your boy goat, the fact that it has been 24 hours and minimal swelling, IT IS A GOOD SIGN THAT HE WILL RECOVER SOON... One less ear is not the end of the world.. feel sooooo sorry for the pain he endured, but he is ALIVE [​IMG]
    WISHING YOU BEST.. keep us updated on the progress [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Adalida

    Adalida Chillin' With My Peeps

    531
    107
    111
    Nov 21, 2015
    Montana
    It is so strange that I just now happened across this thread. I was planning to take the dogs outside in a few hours and see how they behaved with the chickens and ducks. The dogs NEVER go outside while the poultry are free ranging but I wanted to get to that point. I was going to take them out today, one at a time, on leashes, and see how they behaved. But you are so right about how something can happen in an instant and that a dog will always be a dog despite all the training you do. I'm very sorry that happened to you, but I sincerely thank you for posting your story and changing my mind, you probably kept my flock from getting hurt.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Beekissed

    Beekissed True BYC Addict

    From the description of how hard it was to detach this dog, I'm guessing pit bull somewhere in the lines? Time to seriously do some Cesar Milan watching on YT or wherever you can view his past Dog Whisperer episodes as there are many, many pit bulls on there he's had to work with. He's not one for removing the animals from each other but putting them back together again and using the next contact for training the dog on how you expect him to be around the goats. But, from the sound of his response to your commands to stop...or non response...it sounds like you need to go back to basics until he respects your authority more.
     
  5. enola

    enola Overrun With Chickens

    The fact that you state the dog ran the fence incessantly shows you have a long hard road getting this dog to respect livestock.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Beekissed

    Beekissed True BYC Addict

    I agree. That should never be allowed, no matter the breed or situation. Any dog that excited by the livestock is going to be a huge problem when he finally gets to come in contact with them.
     
  7. oldhenlikesdogs

    oldhenlikesdogs Lots of Chickens Premium Member

    16,716
    4,400
    456
    Jul 16, 2015
    central Wisconsin
    The fastest way to get the dog to respect the goats is electric fencing, one shock and most dogs will not go near it, we haven't plugged in ours for a gate for the donkeys for about ten years, the dogs who experienced it hot will avoid it and run like crazy. It's your best option besides doing something bad with the dog.
     
  8. animalgrl

    animalgrl Chillin' With My Peeps

    173
    21
    79
    Jun 7, 2015
    I have a very prey driven dog. I also have 4 indoor cats. After some close calls and months of training him around the cats and with very minimal training (and 3 separate trainers who told me, "if you work really hard you might be able to have him around the cats some day - as long as he is wearing a muzzle.") I came to the conclusion that it is easier to manage him than to expect he will ever be able to be around the cats. Prey drive is a hard one because it is so hard wired. I keep the dog separated from the cats at all times - we rotate rooms during the day and at night the dogs sleep locked in their crates so the cats can roam the house safely. Surprisingly, this particular dog has learned to ignore the chickens. He learned that he isn't even supposed to look at them. The chickens, however, are in a fenced run. He doesn't run or charge the fence. He pretty much ignores them, however, I know if the chickens ever get out of the pen, all bets are off. He would go after them in a second. It's just a hard wired behavior for him. While training is always preferable, sometimes management is the best and sometimes only option.
     
  9. HnkyDnkyZZFarm

    HnkyDnkyZZFarm Chillin' With My Peeps

    145
    24
    68
    Jan 2, 2016
    Northern California
    Cell phone double post can't find delete
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
  10. HnkyDnkyZZFarm

    HnkyDnkyZZFarm Chillin' With My Peeps

    145
    24
    68
    Jan 2, 2016
    Northern California
    @Beekissed

    Half Mcnab-going on 5yo, to gracefully attempt to avoid political territory- which was why I was only moderately concerned about the fence running, its about an acre long. We have a neighbor with a full mcnab and hes stock safe bulletproof even though hes a car herder. It appeared our dog was favoring his mcnab. Double drive dog. We dealt with the large dog terrible twos when so many get surrendered, some barking, some leash pulling, becoming cat unfriendly when before he was afraid of them, and he seemed to have gotten over it and hit a nice mellow stage for the last few years.


    Hes definitely not the dominant chesty dog or is disrespectful of authority when he's in his skull. That he was so completely and utterly absent was the shocker. Usually I just give him stank eye and he gets in his house and whimpers. Not rationalizing though. The behavior is unacceptable. Right now containment and supervision are a priority.

    He's had no furniture privileges ever, no resource guarding ever, no people food, walKs a step behind on leash, doesn't pull, he might do really well in a super controlled environment with no other animals other than big dogs. He plays well with our other dog, usually shes my headache and hes my brag.

    So long as he has constant supervision hes spot on.


    In the human pack he is a very submissive dog. Hes always been sneaky though. Right now if I even look at him shivers. Literally. Im at a loss. Till the goats no longer laid up I just don't have it in me to pay it forward with the dog quite yet. Rehoming or a rescue isnt entirely out of the question.

    No intention of putting goats and dogs in the same space Ever. Retraining be danged, not at that degree of risk. I flat out have no desire whatsoever to be bitten and have my options further reduced. The risk of repeat at this time feels like about 100%

    Thank you to everyone for opinions and support. Im trying to keep a sense of humor, but... Its been a pretty stressful couple of days.
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by