When to get rid of a dog? Part 1: THE JUNGLE FOWL INCIDENT

Discussion in 'Predators and Pests' started by BigIslandBirdman, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. BigIslandBirdman

    BigIslandBirdman Out Of The Brooder

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    I adopted Klöe from the pound five months ago, along with a companion dog Chochang. Klöe is a beautiful loving dog who has markings like snoopy. The pound told me she was a rotwiller mix- from her bark I could tell she had some pit in her, she howls in a high pitch tone Her demeanor is calm but can be hyper during play or when she first sees you. She minds very well and is extremely intelligent... Thankfully she comes when called and is very obedient. She is lazy and sleeps often and quite soundly. She is also nonchalant when it comes to the chickens in fact the chicken eat out her bowl and she never bothers them- she just blinks her eyes at them and goes back to sleep.

    Chochang on the other hand was a Shepard Mix- looked Australian with one distinctive blue eye and one brown eye. She was a beautiful chocolate brown with a beige Shepard markings. She never came when called, especially if her nose caught scent of something. I could tell from day one she possessed a strong prey drive- she pinned one of my full grown barred rock hens down and began pulling out her feathers; poor chicken was hollering for her dear life! Chochang was only about 12 weeks old when she did this! The chicken was ok, only a little startled. I thought I would take Chochang with me to gather eggs- when I got to the hen house my rooster suddenly attacked her followed by my hens- if I hadn't immediately picked her up, they would have pecked her eyes out- the hens were aiming as if guided by instinct for the eyes! It makes sense for survival to blind the predator as I was mesmerized by their team work! Chochang needless to say feared for HER dear life!

    I live on the east side of the Big Island and often have jungle fowl (wild chickens) that join my flock. I had both dogs on runners and kept them tide up when I was not at home and had my chickens locked away as well. One day when I came home from work chochang had killed a jungle fowl bird while she was tied up! The birds are next to impossible to catch because they are lightening fast and are fliers! Latter I observed how she caught the bird; she would crouch down behind some grass and wait for a chicken to eat some of her food. When the chicken least expect it she would pounce on them with the skill of a cat! It seldom worked as the wild chickens are quite fast and not easily taken. What an intelligent hunter use your boring dry dog food as bait, and maybe get a fresh chicken dinner! I always heard the myth that once the taste the blood they will always be killers. I considered giving her up because I was afraid she would get one of my silkies or perhaps a layer. I kept her, she was so beautiful and I would continue training both her and Klöe!

    Was this the right decision? What would you have done? Is it really a myth once they taste the blood they will always be killers?
     
  2. ScaredOfShadows

    ScaredOfShadows Chillin' With My Peeps

    it is a myth that once they taste blood they will keep wanting it. Some dogs do have high prey drives and once they figure out something is FUN - (most dogs don't EAT their chicken kills, just kill them for FUN ) they can be hard to break of the habit. You have alot of work ahead of you.

    Advice - do not trust her off a leash near your chickens until you can teach her to come back to you when called and the command "leave it" (like drop it - just teach her to leave something alone on command) these two commands are the main foundation for a dog you can trust around prey animals. It may take weeks or months, but it can be done. If you want her to socialize with the chickens tie a leash or rope to her collar and to your waist or belt. - this way you still have command of her, and when she gets to interested in the chickens (crouches down, or throws her ears back and lowers her head - that tends to be key body language that a dog is going into stalk or predator mode) tug on that leash and tell her "NO, leave it" that should help to snap her out of it, and she will associate the command with what you want. be VERY repetitive, and do this as often as you can (taking her around the chickens on a tie and reinforcing what you want her to learn) for atleast a month. if she is still a puppy, i really wouldn't trust her, until you can observe her sitting by the chickens like the other dog ignoring their presence. Dogs need to learn chickens are part of the pack - even the wild fowl as they ARE chickens...She has to learn they are not to be touched, because YOU her ALPHA has told her so.

    make sense?

    Good luck hun!
     
  3. mmaddie's mom

    mmaddie's mom Chillin' With My Peeps

    You did and are doing the right thing. Above advice is very good. You rescued her from the pound and she is now your responsibility... give it your very best shot at training her before you consider anything else! Keep training BUT do realize that you may never be able to trust her completely with the chickens when you are not around. Good Luck... you are doing a good thing for her & your chickens.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  4. southerndesert

    southerndesert B & M Chicken Ranch

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    Jun 17, 2011
    Morristown, AZ
    I have only had 2 dogs that were not trainable around chickens, most will stop with proper discipline after a kill, the two were both strays we took in at our farm in Illinois years...um and years back [​IMG] Had no bond with these dogs and they would not listen or understand...

    We use the 3 strike method here....
     
  5. DAFox

    DAFox Chillin' With My Peeps

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    SW MO in Vernon Co
    I have a lab/shepherd mix that last killed chickens 4 years ago. From that point, she was only off leash when I was around. Her attitude around chickens really improved with discipline. She got so good that the chickens could eat out of her bowl when she was tied out. One day, a couple of months ago, I had her off leash while I was working around the property. I had to go to the store and forgot to tie her up.
    When I got home, my husband told me that she pinned a chicken and was tearing feathers out, shortly after I left. Fortunately, he saved the chicken.
    *Sigh*
    Dale-Ann
     
  6. ScaredOfShadows

    ScaredOfShadows Chillin' With My Peeps

    i am definately of the belief that 98.5% of dogs (most of those 1.5% are LGDs) are not to be trusted loose and unsupervised around chickens when no human is present. Dogs are predators and when they get bored even one who hasn't killed before or in years - may get bored or tempted enough to give it ago. most dogs with the right training and that they trust and respect their humans, can be trusted SUPERVISED around chickens.
     
  7. FourPawz

    FourPawz Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Virginia
    I had to go to the store and forgot to tie her up.
    When I got home, my husband told me that she pinned a chicken and was tearing feathers out, shortly after I left. Fortunately, he saved the chicken.
    *Sigh*

    At least you've got the dog trained to respect you, when you are there. Don't beat yourself up. You've got a more disciplined dog than a lot of people. Keep working with her.​
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  8. nzpouter

    nzpouter Chillin' With My Peeps

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    new zealand
    if you haven't got the time, rehome her.....
    The taste of blood doesn't make a chicken killer, the chase and play do... all our dogs are fed raw and we run ALL our dogs (from all sorts of breed) with our stock/ their dinner (chickens, ducks, sheep, goats, pigs, pigeons and geese). Their job is to guard the property and everything in it, they are allowed to chase and kill anything that don't belong here (and they're good at it).
     
  9. DAFox

    DAFox Chillin' With My Peeps

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    SW MO in Vernon Co
    Quote:At least you've got the dog trained to respect you, when you are there. Don't beat yourself up. You've got a more disciplined dog than a lot of people. Keep working with her.

    Thank you. In every other respect, she is a great dog. She is loose at night to guard the chicken coop and has killed a couple of racoons. Along with my other dogs, she's the reason that I have lost only one chicken to a wild predator. She was a puppy, then.
    Dale-Ann
     
  10. mikensara

    mikensara Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jun 16, 2011
    New York
    I let the chickens out to free range yesterday and stayed outside to supervise and our dog wanted nothing to do with them at all they would get near her and she would get up and move. still dont think i would leave her alone with them just yet.
     

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