Why are silver penciled rock chicks brown?

[nuthatched]

I assumed that since the adult birds are White/gray/black laced, that the chicks would be those colors, but I was surprised that they're a mahogany brown chipmunk stripe on a gray (first molt white) background. Can someone explain they're genetics, please?

 

[NatJ]

Brown down on silver chicks can happen with Egyptian Fayoumis too, and with Silver Duckwing colored chicks in various breeds.

I don't know exactly what genes are involved, but it seems that some genes have different effects on chick down than they do on adult color, or even affect just the adult color and not the chick down.

I'd be quite interested in a more detailed explanation too.

 

[Chicks n stuff]

I assumed that since the adult birds are White/gray/black laced, that the chicks would be those colors, but I was surprised that they're a mahogany brown chipmunk stripe on a gray (first molt white) background. Can someone explain they're genetics, please?

I was similarly curious as to why white jersey giant chicks are gray-ish-Kiki color, and not white or pale yellow like other white breeds/verities of chickens.
Also why are most wheaten types a yellow/white as a chick?
Love to know what; genes, chromosomes and alleles are responsible.

 

[NatJ]

I was similarly curious as to why white jersey giant chicks are gray-ish-Kiki color, and not white or pale yellow like other white breeds/verities of chickens.

Genetically, there are several ways to make white chickens.
--Silver turns gold/red to white
--Dominant White turns black to white
--recessive white turns all feather colors to white

Many white breeds are based on a genetically black chicken, turned white by Dominant White, and often with Silver to make sure no gold leaks through. Such chicks are pale in color.

White Jersey Giants are also genetically black, but they have recessive white instead. That doesn't have the same effect on the chick down.

White Silkies often have recessive white, with genes that would otherwise make a partridge color chicken. I think their chicks are a pale color, so they fit the general pattern of pale chicks/white adults, although they are getting there by yet another combination of genes.

Also why are most wheaten types a yellow/white as a chick?
Love to know what; genes, chromosomes and alleles are responsible.

The e-locus alleles have a big effect on chick down color.
This page talks a bit about it:
http://kippenjungle.nl/sellers/page2.html
(Search for "chick down" to save a lot of time scrolling)
A chick that is pure for Wheaten at the e-locus is likely to have quite pale down, no matter what other genes it has. (Obvious exception: Rhode Island Reds, where Mahogany turns the chick red instead of pale.)

Some of the other genes that can also affect chick down:
--Silver vs. Gold (useful for sexlnks)
--Columbian (removes some black, in chick down and adult feathers)
--Dominant White (turns black to white, in chick down and adult feathers)
--Blue/Splash, also chocolate (dilute black, in chick down and adult feathers)
--Mahogany (darkens gold shades to red, in chick down and adult feathers)

 

[Chicks n stuff]

Genetically, there are several ways to make white chickens.
--Silver turns gold/red to white
--Dominant White turns black to white
--recessive white turns all feather colors to white

Many white breeds are based on a genetically black chicken, turned white by Dominant White, and often with Silver to make sure no gold leaks through. Such chicks are pale in color.

White Jersey Giants are also genetically black, but they have recessive white instead. That doesn't have the same effect on the chick down.

White Silkies often have recessive white, with genes that would otherwise make a partridge color chicken. I think their chicks are a pale color, so they fit the general pattern of pale chicks/white adults, although they are getting there by yet another combination of genes.



The e-locus alleles have a big effect on chick down color.
This page talks a bit about it:
http://kippenjungle.nl/sellers/page2.html
(Search for "chick down" to save a lot of time scrolling)
A chick that is pure for Wheaten at the e-locus is likely to have quite pale down, no matter what other genes it has. (Obvious exception: Rhode Island Reds, where Mahogany turns the chick red instead of pale.)

Some of the other genes that can also affect chick down:
--Silver vs. Gold (useful for sexlnks)
--Columbian (removes some black, in chick down and adult feathers)
--Dominant White (turns black to white, in chick down and adult feathers)
--Blue/Splash, also chocolate (dilute black, in chick down and adult feathers)
--Mahogany (darkens gold shades to red, in chick down and adult feathers)

Oh, so the DF Mahogany that welsummers and Bielefelders carry is contributing to their chick dow and possibly enhancing the auto sexing of the barring.
Do you know if a standard cream legbar is silver? They tend to be a cool tone, (as opposed to a warm tone).

Genetically, there are several ways to make white chickens.
--Silver turns gold/red to white
--Dominant White turns black to white
--recessive white turns all feather colors to white

Many white breeds are based on a genetically black chicken, turned white by Dominant White, and often with Silver to make sure no gold leaks through. Such chicks are pale in color.

White Jersey Giants are also genetically black, but they have recessive white instead. That doesn't have the same effect on the chick down.

White Silkies often have recessive white, with genes that would otherwise make a partridge color chicken. I think their chicks are a pale color, so they fit the general pattern of pale chicks/white adults, although they are getting there by yet another combination of genes.



The e-locus alleles have a big effect on chick down color.
This page talks a bit about it:
http://kippenjungle.nl/sellers/page2.html
(Search for "chick down" to save a lot of time scrolling)
A chick that is pure for Wheaten at the e-locus is likely to have quite pale down, no matter what other genes it has. (Obvious exception: Rhode Island Reds, where Mahogany turns the chick red instead of pale.)

Some of the other genes that can also affect chick down:
--Silver vs. Gold (useful for sexlnks)
--Columbian (removes some black, in chick down and adult feathers)
--Dominant White (turns black to white, in chick down and adult feathers)
--Blue/Splash, also chocolate (dilute black, in chick down and adult feathers)
--Mahogany (darkens gold shades to red, in chick down and adult feathers)

I named this chick Tootsie.

What color is this silkie chick?
I know the sire is a recessive white. Only have the one rooster in this group. I’m 90% sure the sire(the recessive white silkie), is partridge underneath the recessive white,(five of the sire’s 13 offspring are some form of partridge). There are only 3 possible mothers.
Possible mothers are:
1. A blue silkie hen. She is definitely the mother of a blue partridge chick so she is carrying partridge. Making her Genotypically (E/e^b), black carrying partridge.
2. A black showgirl hen(black showgirl’s mother was black patterned gold birchen showgirl and her father was blue silkie).
3. A dark brown,(near black) silkie hen with with a small amount of silver and gold leaks mostly on her neck, but some throughout her body’s plumage as well. I suspect her to be the mother.

 

[NatJ]

Do you know if a standard cream legbar is silver? They tend to be a cool tone, (as opposed to a warm tone).

They are supposed to be gold, not silver; but they are also supposed to have the cream dilution, which makes them lighter in color (and may contribute to the cool tone you notice.)

I named this chick Tootsie.
View attachment 3344631
What color is this silkie chick?
I know the sire is a recessive white. Only have the one rooster in this group. I’m 90% sure the sire(the recessive white silkie), is partridge underneath the recessive white,(five of the sire’s 13 offspring are some form of partridge). There are only 3 possible mothers.
Possible mothers are:
1. A blue silkie hen. She is definitely the mother of a blue partridge chick so she is carrying partridge. Making her Genotypically (E/e^b), black carrying partridge.
2. A black showgirl hen(black showgirl’s mother was black patterned gold birchen showgirl and her father was blue silkie).
3. A dark brown,(near black) silkie hen with with a small amount of silver and gold leaks mostly on her neck, but some throughout her body’s plumage as well. I suspect her to be the mother.View attachment 3344662View attachment 3344664

I'm actually pretty bad at recognizing some colors of chick down.

So I can state the obvious-- it is black, and will probably not grow up to be white either. I don't think it's blue, and of course it doesn't have chipmunk stripes, and is not solid yellow/gold/red. But that still leaves way too many options! Maybe Partridge, or a color based on Partridge?

If I had to guess e-locus based on appearance, I would think either Partridge (e^b) or Birchen (E^R), with a chance of carrying one of the more recessive alleles as well.

I would guess it will show some amount of black and of gold when it grows up (black rather than blue or Dominant White, gold rather than silver.) I can't predict whether the "gold" would actually be light or dark, rich or faded.

I don't know which hen is most likely to be the mother, because I can see that any of them have genes that might produce a chick of that color.