Why does it matter whose line it is from?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by kathyinmo, Oct 23, 2009.

  1. kathyinmo

    kathyinmo Nothing In Moderation

    Why is it frequently asked, "Whose line are they from?" For example: when I get a line established, will that, then, be my line? Or will it always be someone else's line? Often there are several lines combined. Why is this important to know, or is it?
     
  2. emvickrey

    emvickrey ChowDown Silkie Farm

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    From what I understand, if a person or group have established a pure or very good line of a breed and want to preserve it. They only want to sell to those that will keep the line pure or full blooded. Maybe they have established a unique breed and want to get more out in the world and don't want anybody to mix it with something else. That would break the line. When you break the line and you try to sell the bird as it came from so n so's line then that person breeds the birds with a good line or hatches the eggs out that they bought and get the odd ball in the wood pile, it messes up the word of the original person.
    Also, it the breeder knows of the person the line came from and knows they are reputable they will make the purchase. They will have more confidence in what they are buying.
    Like I purchased a pair of American Onagadori from a man that bought his from a man and so on, that want it to stay pure and not mix the birds and then say its an American Onagadori or try to pass them off as Phoenix. Some people will get upset if that happens and will actually call them up and give a chewing.
    So if you ever purchase from a particular line you should make sure it stays the same and not mix it or change its name. It could have negative results towards you and the original breeder.

    Now, I do hope i'm right in all that. I'm sure if i'm not or it needs to be explained better, somebody more experienced than myself will come along and explain it. If i'm wrong, I sure would like to know it. I am all for learning all I can about chickens.
     
  3. call ducks

    call ducks silver appleyard addict

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    Also for breeding. EX if i was to buy blue rosecomb from line 1, and then go buy one from line X i could breed them and it would be better then breeding brother to sister.
     
  4. seedcorn

    seedcorn Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 25, 2007
    NE. IN
    1) It gives you a point of reference about the history of that line.
    2) Some use it with the non-stated but implied, they are the same as "X line" but mine are cheaper but the same quality/bloodlines. NOT SO. Want line X, buy it from the breeder who made it. Remember breeder X may sell birds that are OK but not up to his standards.
    3) Crossing line A with line B may or may not be an improvement.
    4) Breeding family members is called "line breeding" and yes, it is inbreeding. While you will stengthen certain traits that you want, you can also strengthen defects as well. Usually it is F-D or M-S and not S-B.
     
  5. catwalk

    catwalk Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 19, 2009
    The birds you bought from someone, say HatTrick, that they bred, will be from the HatTrick line. You should ask permission if you may continue to drop that name after you start breeding. Your original stock may be HatTrick, and I'm sure that you can continue to brag about that, but once you cross them, it is your breeding, not theirs. Not to say the offspring will be any different quality, but HatTrick had no say in your breeding choices, and they should be consulted before using their name in advertising.
     
  6. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Line is used in a number of different ways as is indicated by the various answers to this topic.

    The question: "whose line are they from" can be a conversation starter about your birds, a querry about their background from a prospective purchaser, or a question to gather how much knowledge and experience you have as a breeder.

    Some lines exhibit slightly different traits than others, but all within the standard. I recall reading a post on the silkie group years ago about a breeder who had bred into his birds (sorry, I don't recall which of the big names from 8-10 years ago) very thick feathering--more feathers per sq inch. Either the same or a different breeder had bred in crests that were large, but the areas in front of the eyes were not, so despite their larger crests, their vision was not blocked. These traits are acquired by selective breeding over many generations.

    Some breeders try to keep their birds at the small end of the scale, while others aim for the top end. I know one breeder who selects for longer feather length.

    As for line breeding, there are ways to use line breeding that emphasize genetic diversity while still concentrating specific traits. I think Laura Haggerty has an article on her website on using three lines for breeding. With less space you can use two lines to a similar purpose. Of course that does not provide as much diversity, but it provides more than using a single line.

    When one uses the name of another breeder in reference to one's own birds, it should be used in a complimentary fashion, giving them credit for the quality of their birds. If you don't have something good to say about a breeder, don't say it.

    It is one thing to say "my birds have Stanford, Mahalik and other top breeders in their background," but quite another to say "100% xxx" when xxx did not breed them, even if the parents are both 100% xxx breeding. As was stated, xxx did not make the pairing decisions.

    When do the offspring become your own line? Hard to say. It's one of those things that develop slowly until one day you say...my line, and realize it has been so for quite a while.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2009
  7. Pathfinders

    Pathfinders Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:I completely agree! Once the birds are on your place, they're yours. Not to say you should take credit for a bird you bought from someone else, especially if you show it! But any offspring you breed are now YOUR line, not the original breeders (and any mistakes you may make in setting up your breeding pens should not be reflected back on the original breeder.)

    It's a fine line to tread. Breeders do not like people using their name once the birds have been bred. A good way to answer the question "What lines are they?" is to say "I purchased my original birds from X breeder, but have been working with them for X years, and they are now my line."

    And fwiw, one of my mentors (a breeder for more than 40 years) told me one should never get birds from just one breeder, one should always get at least two or three different lines, and work with them to create one's own line.

    Just fwiw...
     
  8. kathyinmo

    kathyinmo Nothing In Moderation

    Thanks for the comments. [​IMG]
     
  9. Tuffoldhen

    Tuffoldhen Flock Mistress

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    Quote:I completely agree! Once the birds are on your place, they're yours. Not to say you should take credit for a bird you bought from someone else, especially if you show it! But any offspring you breed are now YOUR line, not the original breeders (and any mistakes you may make in setting up your breeding pens should not be reflected back on the original breeder.)

    It's a fine line to tread. Breeders do not like people using their name once the birds have been bred. A good way to answer the question "What lines are they?" is to say "I purchased my original birds from X breeder, but have been working with them for X years, and they are now my line."

    And fwiw, one of my mentors (a breeder for more than 40 years) told me one should never get birds from just one breeder, one should always get at least two or three different lines, and work with them to create one's own line.

    Just fwiw...

    [​IMG] Said just right!
     
  10. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Chillin' With My Peeps

    Pathfinders wrote:
    catwalk wrote:
    The birds you bought from someone, say HatTrick, that they bred, will be from the HatTrick line. You should ask permission if you may continue to drop that name after you start breeding. Your original stock may be HatTrick, and I'm sure that you can continue to brag about that, but once you cross them, it is your breeding, not theirs. Not to say the offspring will be any different quality, but HatTrick had no say in your breeding choices, and they should be consulted before using their name in advertising.

    I completely agree! Once the birds are on your place, they're yours. Not to say you should take credit for a bird you bought from someone else, especially if you show it! But any offspring you breed are now YOUR line, not the original breeders (and any mistakes you may make in setting up your breeding pens should not be reflected back on the original breeder.)

    It's a fine line to tread. Breeders do not like people using their name once the birds have been bred. A good way to answer the question "What lines are they?" is to say "I purchased my original birds from X breeder, but have been working with them for X years, and they are now my line."

    And fwiw, one of my mentors (a breeder for more than 40 years) told me one should never get birds from just one breeder, one should always get at least two or three different lines, and work with them to create one's own line.

    Just fwiw...

    Said just right!

    Absolutely.[​IMG]
     

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