Why I'm Against Organic (read all the way through before you flame)

Discussion in 'Random Ramblings' started by 95yj, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. 95yj

    95yj Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Organics as we recognize them today are not the same as they were in the beginning, they have gone largely industrial, allow a large amount of fairly dangerous chemicals to be used, and it has become very expensive and difficult to become certified organic, especially if your a small scale farmer. The origins of the organic movement go back to some hippies in the 60's who wished to grow vegetables and other plants without the use of petro chemicals, the founders of this movement also stood for small scale localized economies instead of large scale industrial everything, modern day organics have become so twisted and fragmented that it is hard to recognize them as the same entity. My first problem with organics is that it is hurting local farmers, yes you read that right, hurting them. In my area to be even considered worth buying from at a farm stand or farmers market you have to be certified organic, a lengthy and costly process. Several farms could not afford to make the leap to "organic" and as a result closed down. Ounce certified organic the farm must conform to the rigorous organic regulations, which can often be costlier for a small farm than standard farming techniques. But its all worth it if its better for the earth and the consumers, right? Not necessarily these are farms that have been in operation for countless generations on the same soil, I have to jump to the conclusion that if they were harming the earth too much they probably wouldn't be able to reuse the same fields year after year. As for being healthier for the consumer, local farms have never been huge proponents of slathering chemicals all over there plants, they may use a fertilizer here or there, but now under organic they are severely restricted to what they can use. I talked to one farmer at an educational farm who said he was beyond organic and would rather sacrifice his entire crop than use any chemicals, I applaud his fortitude but if your trying to feed your family i have no problems with doing a ounce over spray down to take care of X disease or Y bug. The same farmer also had miles and miles of petroleum based synthetic black plastic cover for the plants and disposable drip line, both of which would get thrown away at the end of the season. The chemicals used in farming that i have real problems with are the thousands of acres of corn that need, literaly need, to be consistenatly sprayed down with petrochemicals just to make them grow, that is a case in which the soil is merely a base for the plant, providing no nutrition. Also, the organic feed you buy at the feed store is probably sprayed with pyrethrum, a pretty scary chemical that can cause all kinds of problems. I could go on for hours, but i have stuff to do, I'll let people respond, and then post more of my points, please go easy on the flaming, i'm hoping that we can have an educated and civilized debate about this controvertial topic.
     
  2. CMV

    CMV Flock Mistress

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    Agree. I can't get into a flame war this morning, searching out articles that back my claims and keeping an eye on BYC. I will say this, though- organic farming is all the rage at the moment, but it is not sustainable in the long run. The world's burgeoning population makes it impossible.

    /Stepping out now.
    /Let the flaming commence.
     
  3. Olive Hill

    Olive Hill Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:Unfortunately, when you start a conversation with conflicted arguments, rampant fallacies and an elementary (at best) understanding of the industry at hand continuing it in an educated manner becomes very difficult.
     
  4. Tropical Chook

    Tropical Chook Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I for one agree with you completely. In my opinion, the only truly organic food you'll ever get to eat is the food you grow yourself. We only have a small piece of ground, and we're a long way off from being able to sustain ourselves, but that which we do grow is well and truly 100% organic. Sure our greens don't look as "pretty as those you see in the supermarkets, but at least I know there isn't even a trace of chemicals present. Yes, the little bugs have a nibble here and there, but then again, so what.

    Chicken feed - unfortunately I still have to buy some feed, but the quantity I buy is getting less and less as we are able to start growing more of our own. We have never yet used any form of sprays, even herbal or natural sprays, and the closest we get to fertilizer is compost from our goat, who by the way eats no commercial food at all. We don't worm our chickens and neither do they get any vaccines. I understand the risks, but I'm willing to life with that. Like you, I also feel for the small farmers as their hands really are tied.

    Just a short while ago I commented to my wife about the "organic" produce at the supermarket looking so perfect. Yes, I have heard all the excuses and etc, but I don't buy into it. This whole" organic thing has become nothing more than a "cash-cow" and unfortunately, a vast majority of the population have been taken for a ride.

    So, if I want organic, I grow my own. Is organic really better for you? I don't know, but that's beside the point.
     
  5. Katy

    Katy Flock Mistress

    As farmers we could never afford to go organic. The cost to get that way and the cost to stay that way would put us out of business very quickly.
     
  6. 95yj

    95yj Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Unfortunately, when you start a conversation with conflicted arguments, rampant fallacies and an elementary (at best) understanding of the industry at hand continuing it in an educated manner becomes very difficult.

    Thank you, I never claimed to be an expert in this area, I'm just an opinionated high school kid with an interest in small scale agriculture. I have done my best to make sure that all the information in the post was accurate and correct but you are probably right, there most likely are untrue statements. Perhaps you could use this opportunity to correct me so that in the future I can form an opinion more accurately with more relevant information and facts.
     
  7. BellevueOmlet

    BellevueOmlet Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I have no problem with using an ounce of chemicals either but I do disagree with you argument and your logic.
     
  8. 95yj

    95yj Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I'm not entirely sure that I really stated my stance on this issue correctly. I think that the entire American food system is fundamentally screwed up and i really don't see a solution without radically changing our entire lifestyles and many other modern American ideals (lets face it, thats just not gonna happen, half the people i go to school with can't "cook" without a microwave). I have no issues if a farmer wishes to go organic, if done correctly then it is better for the consumers, land, and wildlife, however when done on a commercial industrial scale it is very difficult to manage the land correctly. For example, under organic legislation a large scale organic vegetable operation will use tilling as weed control. The land can be tilled 2-3 times more than a typical industrial settup, this creates massive erosion problems and topsoil loss (good soil has become a very, very rare commodity wherever you go, erosion is a much larger issue than many people think) Is this better or worse than the typical herbicides? I don't know, its up to the consumer. On a small scale a local farmer, organic or not, can afford to plant in rows and run a rototiller up and down the aisles, yes it is still tilling, but on a smaller scale, and the amount of soil lost to erosion using this technique will be allot less per square inch simply because the wind is broken up by the crops.
     
  9. 95yj

    95yj Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Anything specific?
     
  10. xyresicchick

    xyresicchick Chillin' With My Peeps

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    i use organic chicken feed as well as growing my own organic garden (whose scraps my chickens get). this year i grew sunflowers that were attacked by sunflower moth larvae, which also is doubling as a source of protein for my chickens. mmm.... larvae. [​IMG]

    i do agree with you to a major extent, ESPECIALLY on the corn issue. but the good thing is that the green movement is at the very least moving us away from oil dependance, which we REALLY have a problem with at this point.

    the main reason i even buy organic chicken feed is because corn is usually one of the main ingredients in major feeds. not only that, but it is the #1 crop whose chemicals (usually "ROUNDUP" from GMO crops engineered to resist the chemical) are killing sealife. i am not even talking about the BP oil spill, i am talking about runoff from crop fields. the 2nd and 3rd crops that have been genetically altered to resist "roundup" are soy and canola, just to let you know (not that anyone asked. but still.)

    from what i understand neem is not only safe for mammals, birds, and many other animals, but it is also very effective towards a large variety of insect pests. i use neem in my garden, sparingly. i buy as little corn, soy, and canola in general now. organic or not. just because the industries are at this point completely corrupt. but... yeah. it is REALLY hard.

    my chickens do enjoy their fresh garden kale though. to them it is the yummiest snack. [​IMG]
     

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