Why no 'caine' products? Suburan/Rural Myth or fact?

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by mypicklebird, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. mypicklebird

    mypicklebird Chillin' With My Peeps

    Aug 8, 2008
    Sonoma Co, CA
    I was curious about why I see so many people posting not to use any products with topical anesthetics in them (the 'caine' products). Where does the original information come from? The more things get repeated, the more people believe them- but from whence comes the ban? Yes, if you put too much lidocaine containing lotion on a sunburned kid (or probably anything small) you can cause harm- but a bit of topical antibiotic with a numbing agent in it on a chicken, I want to know why this is bad. Is the fear just urban myth & legend, or based in some fact? Please share!
     
  2. speckledhen

    speckledhen Intentional Solitude Premium Member

    dhlunicorn has the backup material for that. Benzocaine is used to euthanize small lab animals because it shuts down the nervous system. I lost a bird after applying a wound ointment that I didn't see contained, among many natural ingredients, benzocaine. Within 5 minutes, my rooster just collapsed after application. There was no warning on the box against using it on birds, per se, just against using on animals used for meat. Also, a BYCer (forgot who) said she applied benzocaine to some show birds who had foot injuries the day of the show and in five minutes, most of the were dead or dying. She PMd this to me after my rooster died. Said the extension agent told her dad that benzocaine can be fatal to birds and mentioned the lab animals being euthanized with it.

    All that said, some birds may be more susceptible to it than others and it also may depend on if it's put on broken skin or part of the body with very active blood flow, like combs and wattles. I'd say it's not worth taking the chance.
     
  3. speckledhen

    speckledhen Intentional Solitude Premium Member

    Here is some mention of it in these two places, however, Diana has the documentation for it somewhere.

    IACUC Approved Animal Euthanasia Methods for the University of Arizona

    All methods used must be in compliance with the AVMA Guidelines on Euthanasia, 2007
    ed. (http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf).

    Amphibians and Fish

    Method Dosage Comments
    Benzocaine hydrochloride 400 mg/liter bath
    Pentobarbital sodium 60-100 mg/kg IV, IP, IPP
    Tricaine methane sulfonate
    (MS222)
    3gm/liter bath buffered with
    2.1gm/liter sodium bicarbonate

    Diamond Paws

    Human Drugs that are safe for Dogs & Cats....

    NOT SAFE
    (If a drug is NOT listed here, please do not assume it is safe to give to your dog, always consult your veterinarian first)


    Other common medicines and so called social "drugs" which definitely should not be given by owners to their pets are :

    * Paracetamol
    * Ibuprofen
    * Acetaminophen (Tylenol)
    * Alcohol of any kind
    * Benzocaine
    * The laxative phenolphthalein
    * Iron supplements
    * Vitamin D supplements
    * Nebuliser medications prescribed for asthma
    * Drugs used to control "fits" e.g. phenytoin (toxic in cats)
    * Coffee and tea (due to the caffeine content)
    * Cannabis or any other illegal drug.

    All of the above have been documented to cause serious illness - and are potentially fatal . The message is - NEVER assume what is safe for you and your children is safe for your pet - the chances are it isn't.​
     
  4. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

    4,871
    23
    251
    Jan 11, 2007
    I assure you this is no "urban myth" and is mentioned in several veterinary reference works ... (as the therapeutic dosage comes close to the toxic dosage >in the very few situations where I have read of -caine type med might be indicated it is always with an accompanying warning for the veterinarian) see below for one resource:

    http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=practical&action=display&num=1158141893
    (link to thread at my library on WOUND MANAGEMENT , where you will find:
    http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2003/august/Cousquer/Avian-Wound-Assessment.html
    AVIAN WOUND MANAGEMENT :
    ....First aidTraumatised birds often have multiple injuries and may be further compromised by dehydration, malnutrition and other problems, especially if there has been a delay (hours or days) between injury and presentation [1]. Fluid and nutritional therapy and treatment for shock are critical in the early management of all traumatised birds. Overzealous wound and fracture treatment before stabilisation of the bird may prove fatal [1]. Some first aid of the wound, however, will inevitably be required.....
    ....Analgesia and antibiotics - broad spectrum antibiotics can be provided in the first instance: clavulanic acid potentiated amoxycillin (150mg/kg orally or subcutaneously) will provide cover against most aerobes and anaerobes. ....Local anaesthetics should not be used in birds due to the suggested sensitivity of birds to drugs of the procaine group "."

    There is also a reference (warning similar to above) in one of the many articles by reknowned avian veterinarian Margaret Wissman.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  5. mypicklebird

    mypicklebird Chillin' With My Peeps

    Aug 8, 2008
    Sonoma Co, CA
    Thanks! So the topical benzocaine is the main suspect, but they are possibly sensitive to the whole class. The euthanasia bath for fish and amphibians makes sense- as they absorb things through their skin readily. It is used safely for anesthesia in fish at lower concentration, but overdose is easy.
    Here is a nice link with info by Dr Hawkins at the UCDavis School of Vet Med on pain management in birds. Has a summary of some of the meds in the lidocaine class- which was what I was familiar with. Lidocaine can/has been used and dosing guideline exist, but use with caution ect. I will stay away from the topicals (I have benzocaine in gel form, as well as it is in some blood stopping stypic powders- for trimming nails).
    http://www.thebirdclinic.com/L13_Pain_and_Analdesia.htm
     
  6. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

    57,835
    14,083
    751
    Jun 24, 2012
    My Coop
    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by