Why so many new variety projects, but no new breed projects?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by HaikuHeritageFarm, Jul 31, 2010.

  1. HaikuHeritageFarm

    HaikuHeritageFarm Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Anchorage, AK
    The subject line pretty much says it all. Why is it that everyone want to add varieties to existing breeds, but there seems to be little interest in crossing breeds for specific traits to make entirely new breeds?

    I've noticed the same thing in my rabbits.

    It almost seems like a lack of imagination, maybe people think it's all been done already, so all you can do is paint them different colors? Or is it a lack of credibility attributed to "new breeds", like in dogs? For example, certain strains of Labradoodles (the original Australian ones) have been breeding true for generations, but there are still a lot of naysayers that refuse to consider them a breed. Are the parent clubs not interested in adding new breeds to standard?

    I understand wanting to work on and improve existing breeds and colors, and think that's a great idea. But if you're going to have a project and work on something new, why not go WAY out there and do something COMPLETELY different?

    For example, instead of adding the Lavender color to other breeds, why not work on a dual purpose breed where the Lavender color is its distinguishing characteristic? Not bashing, just wondering and trying to understand.
     
  2. TK Poultry

    TK Poultry Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 25, 2009
    Greencastle, Indiana
    I've noticed that alot of American poultry breeders are trying to catch up in a sense to the varieties in Europe that we just don't have. You see in Europe that they have more variety and breeds than we have so I see alot of catch up going on. Like MF cochins are already established and SQ in Europe the same with Lavender Orps they are SQ over there. There are a few breeds we have that they don't but I think that is alot of the problem. Trying to get all of those varieties and mutations in our existing breeds. I think when Europe and America are on the same page as far as varieties go then I think you will see more people making new breeds. One of the newest breeds was added in the 1980's and that was the Ameraucana

    edited to add: another example of something that Europe has that we haven't even began to conquer is the rumpless gene and different breeds other than Araucanas. They have rumpless d'uccles and japs among others
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2010
  3. TinyBirds

    TinyBirds Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I have a rumpless blue-copper-marans hen, and by doing a web search I found that other people had the rumpless showing up in their marans flocks too. If enough people were interested in rumpless marans I think Americans could easily have those at least.

    I have a project planned for a new breed (no birds to show for it yet), but don't know how complicated it is to have it accepted as a formal "breed". I assume it must be pretty hard to do. If I can't get a breed-name (not really that important to me anyway), I would be totally fine just calling the bird an EE (Easter Egger) since it will lay blue eggs. I plan to make the breed with 1/4 hamburg, 1/4 polish, 1/4 Ameraucana, and 1/4 OEG, with the goal of having a very pretty blue-egg-layer (smallish size bird, so not meant to be dual-purpose). The first color I want to make is the buff-laced, with an ER/ER genotype to get the lacing into the tail. We'll see how much progress I can make in the next 4 years. It's definitely not a short-term project. I think if we set our minds to something though, we can accomplish whatever new breeds we can dream up, even if they aren't formally accepted as a new breed.
     
  4. But if you're going to have a project and work on something new, why not go WAY out there and do something COMPLETELY different?

    Hi! Maybe something like blue black-skinned Giant Frizzled Naked Neck Green-Eggers?
    [​IMG]
    Lisa​
     
  5. Poulets De Cajun

    Poulets De Cajun Overrun With Chickens

    Quote:Its rather simple... money. People aren't genuinely interested in poultry varieties, so much as they are the money that those varieties bring. Pick a breed and throw the word 'lavender' in front of it, and watch the dollar signs fly. No one is interested in creating a new breed, they are interested in creating a new income. Everyone is always trying to develop the 'next best thing' to make a buck, instead of doing it for the pure pleasure and enjoyment of poultry itself. The Europeans have so many more varieties because they have a genuine interest in the science of the hobby. They dont care how much one variety costs over the other.
     
  6. TK Poultry

    TK Poultry Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 25, 2009
    Greencastle, Indiana
    Quote:Its rather simple... money. People aren't genuinely interested in poultry varieties, so much as they are the money that those varieties bring. Pick a breed and throw the word 'lavender' in front of it, and watch the dollar signs fly. No one is interested in creating a new breed, they are interested in creating a new income. Everyone is always trying to develop the 'next best thing' to make a buck, instead of doing it for the pure pleasure and enjoyment of poultry itself. The Europeans have so many more varieties because they have a genuine interest in the science of the hobby. They dont care how much one variety costs over the other.

    I agree with you a little there, but it takes alot of dedication to make a new variety in some cases so the monetary aspect could only be a bonus don't you think?
     
  7. AinaWGSD

    AinaWGSD Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I'm sure there are a few reasons for this. Bear in mind that I am not a breeder, and currently have no plans to be one (although you never know), but I have a few thoughts on this.

    1) It takes a lot more time, money, and space to develop a new breed than a new color variety. It already takes a considerable effort to introduce a new color to an existing breed and bring those birds up to show quality. It takes even longer to define a new breed and work with them until they both resemble the desired written standard and breed true. A lot of people aren't that patient (I'm not, that's for sure).

    2) It takes more people, time, and paperwork to develop a new breed than to introduce a new color of an established breed. To get a new color recognized, you have to have a minimum number of dedicated people working on the variety. I imagine you also /need a (slightly larger) minimum number of people to get a new breed recognized. I'm not sure how exactly it works with chickens, but I know that with rabbits and dogs you have to have established not only a breed club, but also a "demand" for the new breed being developed. Then they have a probationary period where they are considered a new breed for showing purposes but will not be officially recognized for several years.

    3) There may be something to the "it's all been done already" theory too. After all, as anyone just getting their feet wet in chicken keeping can attest to there are a LOT of breeds out there that will fit any one individual's wants and needs and it can be very hard to narrow it down to just one (or two, or six, or ten) breed(s).
     
  8. Poulets De Cajun

    Poulets De Cajun Overrun With Chickens

    Quote:Sure its a bonus!

    The problem is people pay hundreds, if not thousands of dollars for 'new' varieties that are the cool, hip, new thing. Then they mix that variety with anything that they can get their hands on, just so that they can sell them and make a buck. What ends up happening is that you have this new 'variety' that ends up being unable to be accepted as 'standard' because people have produced too many inferior gene pools.

    And if they are eventually accepted as 'standard', its only because of a few die hard breeders who have bred diligently over years, and years, and years, because they are genuinely interested in the variety, and not the buck it can make them. And with only a handful of those types of breeders, the US is left with a lack of varieties... unlike the Europeans.


    For example.... the Malaysian Seramas. They can't even agree who imported them, Jerry S. or Terry from Shagbark? For a while, Seramas where the 'hot new bird' on the block. Everyone wanted them. And what ended up happening? A few people got their hands on one or two and started crossing them with OEG's, at which point the birds werent' even accepted as "standard". To my knowledge, they still aren't. And now what are you left with? A few pure strains, and a bunch of crap mixes that sort of resemble Seramas.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2010
  9. HaikuHeritageFarm

    HaikuHeritageFarm Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Anchorage, AK
    Interesting theories, guys. I suspect it does all come down to a general lack of money and/or serious interest and commitment.

    I'm excited to start studying chicken genetics. There are so many interesting genes to play with!
     
  10. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    IMO, those working on varieties are usually working towards exhibition. Those working on breeds are as likely to be working towards productivity as towards exhibition. Those working on productivity are probably more interested in their project for personal reasons: more eggs, more thrifty bird, more meat faster, etc. And are at least a little less likely to advertise the results than those who are breeding for exhibition who want to show our birds off.

    Yes, you have breeds such as serama and marans, but both were already established breeds elsewhere--they are just new to the US.
     

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