Wing sexing chocolate orphingtons

Discussion in 'What Breed Or Gender is This?' started by cutecowgirl084, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. cutecowgirl084

    cutecowgirl084 Out Of The Brooder

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    So I've been doing some reading on wing sexing and it seems only certian breeds does this work with. My question is would orphingtons fall into the category of breeds it works on? Also would it be fair to say when looking at 2 chicks from same hatch, that if a major difference is observed that it means something?? Here are my two chocolate orphington chicks, 3-5 days old Thoughts??[​IMG]

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    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  2. junebuggena

    junebuggena Chicken Obsessed

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    In order for feather sexing to work, and be accurate, a fast feathering breed/line needs to be crossed with a slow feathering breed/line. It does not work with Orpingtons, as they do not have the required genes.
     
  3. junebuggena

    junebuggena Chicken Obsessed

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    With chocolates, there is a degree of sexlinking, though. All the females will be chocolate, but only half the boys will be. If you have any black chicks, then they have to be male.
     
  4. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

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    If you want science instead of fantasy, I suggest you read the first post in this thread. It tells you what is required to be able to feather-sex newly hatched chicks. You can get a lot of misinformation on this forum, this is an attempt to point you in the right direction.

    Tadkerson’s Sex Link Thread
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=261208

    Just like red sex links and black sex links for newly hatched chicks, the parents have to be set up correctly genetically to feather sex chicks. The hen has to have the dominant slow feathering gene and the rooster has to have only the recessive fast feathering gene. Any other combination just doesn’t work.

    There are a few breeds where the fast or slow feathering genes are part of the genetic make-up. There is a chart that shows some of them in that post I mentioned. You can make feather sexed chicks from crossing some of those breeds but you cannot make feather sexed chicks by keeping a pure breed.

    Most breeds may be either fast or slow feathering. It doesn’t matter according to breed description so no one keeps them separated. Since there is no control over the parents, it is pure random luck how the parents are set up genetically. You will occasionally get some set up so the offspring can be feather sexed but that is pure luck. And the next generation will not be able to be feather sexed because the parents are definitely not set up for it.
     
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  5. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

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    June that only works when you cross a chocolate rooster with a black hen. Chocolate is a recessive gene that modifies black. If you cross chocolate with chocolate, you get chocolate.

    A chocolate rooster has two copies of chocolate and will give one to each of his offspring. A black hen has only one gene there and if it is “not-chocolate” it defaults to black. But the hen will only give a “not-chocolate” to her boys, she gives nothing to her girls. So the girls only get a chocolate from the father and will be chocolate. But the boys get a dominant “not-chocolate” from their mother and a recessive chocolate from their father. The dominant gene wins out and the males are black.
     
  6. cutecowgirl084

    cutecowgirl084 Out Of The Brooder

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    Sounds like color doesn't matter so much as they are not the right feathering type it seems. I just found it odd the huge difference in wing development in these two sibling chicks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  7. junebuggena

    junebuggena Chicken Obsessed

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    The way I understand, is that hens only need one copy of the chocolate gene to express and males need two copies. It's possible to have two chocolate parents produce non-chocolate, male offspring.
     
  8. cutecowgirl084

    cutecowgirl084 Out Of The Brooder

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    Interesting! i can't wait for them to grow up so I can see what I get breeding them;). I'm lucky to have a great breeder close by that always has pretty birds!
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  9. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

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    June, it is a sex linked gene. That means the hen only has one copy of it. She gives a copy to her sons and nothing to her daughters. Let’s use ch for the recessive chocolate gene and Ch for the dominant not-chocolate gene.

    For a male to be colored chocolate, he has to have both copies at that gene pair to be chocolate. He has to have ch-ch. If the rooster is CH-ch or CH-CH he will be black, not chocolate.

    Since a hen only has one gene at that location, not a gene pair, for her to be chocolate she has to have ch-. If she is not-chocolate she has Ch-, the dominant form, and will not be chocolate.

    So a rooster that is chocolate has to give one of his ch to his offspring. He doesn’t have any non-chocolate CH to give. His sons and his daughters will get a ch. If the hen is also chocolate she gives a ch to her sons so all males wind up ch-ch and will be chocolate. But she gives nothing to her daughters so all the daughters have is a ch from their father so they will be chocolate.

    So if the hen is ch and the rooster is ch-ch, both will be chocolate and all offspring will be chocolate. There is no dominant CH non-chocolate to cause a black chicken.

    I think the reason you misunderstand this is that you are thinking the hen has a gene pair at that location. She doesn’t, she only has one gene, just like she only has either one red/gold or one barred/notbarred at those locations. That’s what makes them sex-linked genes. She does not have two.
     
  10. junebuggena

    junebuggena Chicken Obsessed

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    Somedays, the brain just does not work right. Excuse me while I drink some more coffee.
    I blame it on all this sudden sunshine we are getting....
     

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