"Winter Survival "

[Minister Marc C]

Will our chickens survive the winter. . .?

(Brace yourselves) --- it turns out ~ They CAN -and- They WILL !!


Despite our efforts and desire to control everything,
“chickens” are able to survive the winter months.
Truth is, chickens are VERY well equipped to keep themselves warm
(because), after all, they (are) “woodland birds”.

Chickens have downy under feathers (fluff), trapping warm air against
their body. The outer feathers keep the cold air from penetrating.
If the chickens are on a perch, they will cover their feet with the belly feathers.

Do not add heat lamps ! It’s simply not necessary.
A Chickens average body-Temp is 106 F. (41.1 C) --

What about the comb and wattles?
Won’t they be exposed and possibly have frostbite?
Not if the coop is well built, has ventilation at the top and is relatively
draft free. (The coop should not be air tight).
In fact that would definitely lead to frost bite. The coop needs ventilation
to carry the warm moist air up and out of the coop. Otherwise the moist air
will lie on the surface of the combs, leading to frost bite.
Frost bite looks like black blemishes on the chicken’s comb.

Our coop consists mainly of 2 parts:
A nesting box where they lay eggs, which sits on top of a 6 ft. long,
metal frame, wooden top folding table, with lean-to style sides on 4 sides -
a ramp going up to the top of the table, and a gap for them to access
underneath. This gives em a place to go when it rains or when its
very windy / blustery. There is a food tray in there, and a layer of wood
shavings, dried grass / hay - and places to perch.
And when it's windy, wet or blustery cold, they are in there !

If you are wondering ‘why’ you have less eggs in the fall & winter --
It's just part of their seasonal-cycle.
Chickens lay less in the fall and winter for a reason.
Starting in late summer, as the days begin to shorten,
your chickens lose feathers in the annual molting process.
If the chickens have eaten enough ‘insects’ or other protein sources,
the feathers will be almost fully regrown.

Adding extra lights and so forth disrupts their natural cycle.
Artificial lighting holds the chickens back from getting a natural break.
Your hens (may) still be recovering from the “big-molt” ~ (rebuilding the feathers).
Even though they may look smooth and glossy on the outside,
the annual molt can take a toll on the inside.
This is why egg production is still off. Left to their own time table,
and with good nutrition, your hens will gradually regain the protein
and calcium reserves that they need to produce eggs.

Unless they are ill, egg production will naturally pick up again.
You will notice this generally (after) the Winter solstice.
The amount of daylight is a determining factor, don’t misunderstand.
They take notice of everything and they (will) take notice of the natural sun light
shining. When hens will notice the gradual increase in daylight,
egg production will increase again.

Make SURE you check their “WATER”(especially) in the winter!!
Water is a necessary nutrient all year long. Check it EVERYDAY.
Especially if you live where the winter months are extra-cold,
and below freezing.

Make sure that your flock has a source of fresh water through out
the day. This can be a little challenging, especially when temperatures
drop well below freezing. There are a number of founts designed to keep
the water above freezing. Submersible water heaters,
heated bases for metal waterers and electric heated bowls are all helpful,
“if” you have electric power in the coop. (And we don’t).

We generally just keep an eye on their water.
At night they are hunkered down and asleep. Come day-break,
they get fresh water. During the winter our outside hose is in storage.
When it’s below freezing (even below zero), we tote water from the house
out to the pen /coop.

Remember: They ARE feathered, “woodland Birds” -
well equipped by a “competent designer” (GOD).
They’ve lived a long time year after year,
generation after generation - without interference (from us) -
without “us” putting “shoes” and “sweaters” on them -
without us tying little knit “hats” on their little feathery heads !
They simply DON’T REQUIRE that sort of interference from “us” !

FOOD ~ WATER ~ SHELTER. Easy peasy, 1,2,3.
Feed and water birds more often when it’s below freezing.
Energy needs increase in winter. Animals expend a considerable
amount of energy to stay warm and will eat more feed.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Beta Glucans are found in all cereal grains, generally concentrated in the bran, and generally higher in oats, barley, and rye (I believe in that order, but don't quote me, I didn't double check sources). In humans, they are considered "good" (to a point), in that they slow digestion, giving our bodies more time to extract nutrients from our feed. One of the cholesterol lowering fibers, its claimed.

In poultry, they are considered "bad" (after a point). One of the (many) reasons you don't generally see a chicken feed based primarily on oats, or barley, as opposed to wheat, corn, or soy, and instead see oats and barley used as adjuncts in combination with soy, wheat, and corn in areas where other cereal grains are abundant. Typically with a recommend that they not exceed 15% or 20% of the complete diet. Honestly, given their protein/fiber/fat makeup, and the amino acid profiles of the proteins present, its hard to make a complete feed based on them anyways.

That said, barley is abundant in Europe, more so than wheat, and it (or the byproducts of it) is frequently used in the EU as both animal feed and poultry feed. The EU, of course, tends to use lower protein feeds than we do, supplimented by synthetic amino acids. Additionally, they've researched significantly the use of enzymes to assist their birds in breaking down beta glucans into more digestible forms, and have had much success with it.

There are also numerous sources and studies (many I consider questionable) touting the value of beta glucans in bird's immune systems, or enzyme-assisted higher beta-glucan diets as avian feed with purported beneficial effect in avian immune responses. [edit: its certainly plausible that higher beta glucan diets in poultry sufficiently alter conditions in their gut that they are no longer hospitible to various bacteria, etc which have adapted themselves to colonizing our chicken's bodies, much as altering your body's Ph can have a very negative impact on pathogen's in you, while also making your own body operate less efficiently in some fashions. The question, as always, "is the cure worse than the disease?" /edit]

In this case, I'm sticking with the old adage, "the dosage is the poison" - yes, too much oat, barley, rye, or other beta glucan sources can be a problem for your poultry - but so can too much corn, wheat, soy, calcium (carbonate, citrate, diphosphate), salt, etc... I don't consider the observation to be particularly insightful, nor the warning particularly useful here in the US, as its unlikely your nutritionally complete commercial feed has a high oat or barley component, and if it does, it almost certainly has the enzymes added to assist in breaking those beta glucans down into more accessible nutritional sources.

 

[3KillerBs]

Welcome to BYC.

Your post should be reassuring to new chicken keepers who are worried about their first winter.

 

[NatJ]

Will our chickens survive the winter. . .?

(Brace yourselves) --- it turns out ~ They CAN -and- They WILL !!

chickens are VERY well equipped to keep themselves warm...

Chickens have downy under feathers (fluff), trapping warm air against
their body. The outer feathers keep the cold air from penetrating.
If the chickens are on a perch, they will cover their feet with the belly feathers.

Do not add heat lamps ! It’s simply not necessary.
A Chickens average body-Temp is 106 F. (41.1 C) --

Also, don’t feed them “oatmeal”. (Some people do this…)
Oats contain some types of fiber that chickens can’t digest which can
cause the contents of the digestive tract to thicken. This leads to a
reduction in the bird’s ability to digest and absorb nutrients.

Not really true.

A warm mash of chicken food and water is a much better choice than oatmeal (and the chickens love it!), but chickens digest oats just fine. Oats are an ingredient in many chicken feeds.

Greens through the winter are also unnecessary.

If the chickens have a good, complete feed they don't NEED greens at any time of the year, although they enjoy having greens at any season.

Hens may pick at hay and spread it around, but they are not going to eat it.

They do eat some of it. Not enough to make a big difference in their diet, and not the big stems, but they definitely do eat small bits of hay.

Make SURE you check their “WATER”(especially) in the winter!!
Water is a necessary nutrient all year long. Check it EVERYDAY.
Especially if you live where the winter months are extra-cold,
and below freezing.

Like you, I've always made it a point to give fresh water first thing in the morning, because they wake up thirsty and that is when it is most likely to be frozen. And I also make sure they have water in the last hour before dark, so they can have plenty to drink as they are trying to fill their crops before bedtime. Heated waterers might be nice, but I have always carried water from the house for my chickens in winter and they did just fine.

One benefit to a coop with no electricity: you don't have to worry about the chickens when the electric power goes out, because nothing changes for them!

 

[NatJ]

There are certain types of "rolled oat" fibers (high fibers)
that chickens simply cannot digest.

Rolled oats are the same as whole oats, except they get rolled. So if whole oats are fine for chickens, so are rolled oats.

It cause the contents of
the digestive tract to thicken. This leads to a
(reduction) in the bird’s ability to digest and absorb nutrients.
Rolled Oat fibers contain "Beta-glucons" which bind with water...
It (can) lead to death by obstruction.

Do you have a source for that?

(And "the chicken chick" is not a good source. She has footnotes/links to articles that do not actually say what she claims they say.)

 

[NatJ]

Ask a vet familiar with glucan-fiber / nutrition as it pertains to chickens.

I do not have access to any vets that know about chickens. Most vets know little or nothing about chickens. The ones that do know about chickens are not available to me.

Been raising chickens for many, many years.

And so have I, and my parents and grandparents before me. Which proves nothing about whether oats are harmful to chickens or not.

A little research goes a long ways.

Yes, it does. But apparently my "research" and your "research" have found different things.

Beyond that -- stop reading online nonsense and contact:

University of Minnesota Extension for starters..​

Can I look on their website?

The University of Minnesota Extension says:
"Scratch-cracked corn and oats are a nice treat for the chickens that does not supply all their nutritional needs but is fine in moderation."
https://extension.umn.edu/small-scale-poultry/raising-chickens-eggs

The University of Maine Extension says:
"Chicks can be fed wheat, oats or barley. The oats or barley need to be limited to 25% of the starter diet. After six weeks of age, the birds can be fed rations with oats or barley as the whole source of grain,"
https://www.mofga.org/resources/poultry/chickens/

And, for a source that is not online, I have the book Practical Poultry Management, by James E. Rice and Harold E Botsford, published in 1925. (Both of those authors are listed as professors of Poultry Husbandry at Cornell University. Rice was head of the department.)

It says,
"Oats, if heavy, are very desirable for poultry. Light oats are of little value. They have a heavy shuck and contain too much fiber, which is largely indigestible. Oats should not exceed 20 per cent of the grain mixture." (page 89)
"Ground heavy oats are a desirable constituent of the mash. They are rather bulky. Because of their high fiber content, they should not exceed 25 per cent of the mash mixture." (page 90)

So yes, there is quite a history of including oats as part of the diet of chickens, and of oats being considered a good food for chickens (but not as a complete diet.)

And logically, I see no reason why rolling oats should be any worse than feeding them whole, or grinding them and mixing into the feed. It's just a change of shape. I recognize that oatmeal is usually cooked, and I do not know whether cooking makes a difference to the digestibility-- but cooking increases digestibility for most foods, and I have not seen aynthing saying oats are different.

I have no idea what "chicken chick" is. What are you talking about?

I am talking about a blogger who puts up articles with pretty pictures, that new chicken keepers like to read and quote and recommend. But some of her information is just plain wrong, and I don't trust anything she writes unless it is verified by other sources.

She wrote an article on oatmeal:
https://the-chicken-chick.com/the-shocking-effect-of-oatmeal/
Every fall, some newbie posts about how wonderful it is
Her "research" is awful ("beta glucans are bad" has footnotes that lead to a definition of beta glucans, and to a paper that says they harm different species in different ways while never mentioning chickens or oats.)
And the "nutritionist" quoted in that same article thinks you can validly compare nutrient percentages of dry chicken food and wet oats. Gee, he better not let his chickens have any water to dilute their complete feed!

But I am very tired of seeing people quote that article, and what you initially said sounded almost exaclty like what that article said.

Which is why I asked for sources. If a GOOD source shows that oats have problems, then I am happy to listen to it.

But so far, the sources I have seen that appear to be good or reputable do NOT say anything about oats being worse than other grains (like wheat, barley, and rye which also contain beta glucans and also have a history of being used in chicken food.)

you like to argue without facts.

I like facts. That is why I asked for a source.
The internet has plenty of facts, and even more lies, and the difficulty is to figure out which are which (which is part of why I also quoted a physical book that predates the internet.)

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Odd, I wasn't making a cost argument. Neither, did I understand, was he when he advised against the use of oats in chicken feed. Was I wrong?

Nor was I aware that his pronouncement alone, supported by nothing other than claims of experience, was to be considered valid - all contrary (or qualifying/quantifying) opinion offensive to OP. He was, after all, the one who invited us to do our research. (same link) Something I also advise.

I'm happy to link study sources for the claims I've repeated in this thread, now that my computer is pairing with my cell phone, and I have a keyboard again.

His original post in this thread was pretty good, I thought. But if this exchange was to be an exercise in rhetoric? He's got no game.

/edit and I see now he's gone back to add links and a whole new argument on price, not present at the time of my initial responses. Cute.

 

[3KillerBs]

What about whole corn? Should I feed them that? It can get done to -20. I gave them corn through the winter last year and started to give it to them now to get them ready for winter. Is that a good idea?

What chickens need most all year round is a good, complete, nutritionally-balanced diet.

Chickens LOVE corn like children love candy, but it's far from complete nutrition and so should be given carefully without overloading them.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

His first link says nothing about oats at all, and a site search "chicken and oats" provides few hits. Only the top two seem relevant. From the first, this is the relevant line,

"Scratch-cracked corn and oats are a nice treat for the chickens that does not supply all their nutritional needs but is fine in moderation."

That link then goes on to recommend a lightbulb or heat lamp in the coop for winter weather, contrary OP's recommend (and, incidentally, my own, for most US climates and adult, fully fledged birds). The second link describes a large family farm which has chickens (and other animals), and raises oats (among other crops).

The second link also doesn't mention oats.

The third link is like the first - someone's homepage, no mention of oats. Performing a site search "chicken and oats" provides a page on recipe substitututions.

Offered for the benefit of those reading along, that don't have time to search OP's offered links for relevance to the topics at hand.

 

[aart]

Funny that someone who touts ventilation keeps their birds in this:

Now our Chickens live securely in their gated-Ozarkian high security fortress !
P.S. ~ The coop yard is exactly double this size (now). We expanded !