Wormed two days ago, still seeing live worms in poo

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Hipbo, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. Hipbo

    Hipbo Hatching

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    Hi everyone (and especially dawg53)

    I've been reading posts about worming since three days ago my Copper Marans hen (one year old) excreted roundworms. Very small (half an inch or so), but very motile.

    Doused her and her two coop-mates -- a Sussex and a Wyandotte -- with Wazine, per instructions. Confined them in the morning with the sole waterer full of the mixture. Between them they drank maybe two cups of the solution, so I know they got some.

    This morning, the Marans poo still had live worms in it.n Still small, still moving around a good bit though I think less so than before.

    I have valbazen coming from Jeffers for the second round.

    My question is this: since I saw more live worms, should I redo the Wazine or just wait ten days and do the valbazen?

    None of the birds seems sick: they're all eating and active. They free range on my acre or so of fenced yard. I've cleaned out the coop and spread DE for the eggs -- they've been on DE in their food as well since I got them.

    Thanks so much for advice on whether to redo the Wazine before I get the valbazen.
     
  2. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    Excreting roundworms about 1/2" or less may not be large roundworms. It could be an infestation of cecal worms. They are usually about 1/4"-1/2" in length. DE is useless for worming. Wazine only gets rid of large roundworms, dont use it anymore. Wait for the valbazen to come in and immediately dose your birds 1/2cc orally undiluted, use a syringe without a needle. Redose them again in 10 days to kill cecal worm larva hatched from eggs after the first dosing of valbazen. That will effectively end the cecal worms lifecycle in your birds. Wait 14 days after the last dosing before eating the eggs.
    It's important to dose them with the valbazen to get rid of the cecal worms, if that's what they are. Cecal worms can carry the protozoa which causes blackhead in poultry.
     
  3. Adenium

    Adenium Songster

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    I think I should just collect half of dawg53's posts into a little reference library for future chicken issues.....watch me not find this when I have worms coming out of MY chickens' rear ends.
     
  4. Bulldogma

    Bulldogma Songster

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    Adenium, You can go to dawg53's profile and under his avatar there is a button to follow his posts... you can get emails or just notifications on BYC.

    And thank you dawg53 for sharing your knowledge with us! I'm a chicken newbie and the stuff you share is a huge help to me!
     
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  5. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    It's best to set up a regular worming schedule to help prevent worms. Worms cause alot of damage in the chickens digestive system. They also weaken the chickens immune system opening the door to other diseases that chickens would normally fight off with a healthy immune system.
    Your soil conditions dictate how often you should worm chickens. Warm moist soil most of the year like where I live requires that I worm my birds every 3 months, sometimes less. People worry more about tossing eggs for withdrawal periods after worming forgetting about their poor sick hens. Tossing 2 weeks worth of eggs guarantees a healthy hen to lay them in the future. Wormy sick hens dont lay eggs.
    Cold mountainous soil, or desertlike soil may only require semi annual or annual wormings...anyone can set it up how and when they want to worm at their convenience.
    You'll want to rotate wormers when worming to prevent worms from building resistance to one particular product. The best wormers to use are valbazen, safeguard and some of the equine wormers. I'd only use wazine as a last resort only because it gets rid of one type of worm. I've stopped using ivermectin and eprinex and would only use them as an absolute last resort.
     
  6. Hipbo

    Hipbo Hatching

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    THANK YOU. I thought roundworms because I had a cat with them long ago, and these looked like little ones. But will immediately start the valbazen when it gets here. Looking up cecal worms in the meantime. Also blackhead. The poo looked like cecal discharge (not the normal ball of stuff), so I think cecal's actually likely.

    I live west of Atlanta, and the soil is usually very warm and except for just lately, very moist. Will set up a 3mo. worming cycle and rotate through the ones Dawg53 recommends. I have ivermectin for the dogs and I'm told by my vet we're not seeing resistance in the county yet to it, but I'm guessing not ivermectin for some other reason?

    Totally don't care about the eggs. The birds are delightful to watch and they control my ticks and black widows -- that's what I got them for. Neighbors all have pest problems this year b/c of the warm winter: we've seen only one tick, few fleas, no black widows. So I want healthy hens regardless of what it takes to get them there.
     
  7. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    Why dont you try starting out by worming them every 9-10 months and see how that works out for you. You live further north than me, colder soil in fall and winter. I'm not far from the eastern side of the Okefenokee Swamp and the St Mary's river is just down the road from me. We've had 2 tropical storms with tons of rain, so you know what our soil is like lol.
    Ivermectin may be effective in dogs, but in chickens in wont kill cecal worms, tapeworms, flukes, and large roundworms are showing resistance. It is being over used in chickens as a miteacide more so than a wormer, it's primary purpose, hence the wormer resistance to the product. Valbazen will kill all those I mentioned and any other type of worm that a chicken can get. Here's a link to scientific testing regarding ivermectin injectable used on poultry...it's useless as a wormer, but only good for treating mites in poultry:
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0450.1989.tb00635.x/abstract
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  8. Hipbo

    Hipbo Hatching

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    LOL. I grew up on the west coast of FL -- just typed "wet coast" which during hurricane season is way more appropriate -- so I know what you're talking about. I'm actually fine with 9-10 mos., if it keeps them healthy. And thanks for the ivermectin update. Got my valbazen in today's mail; will be dosing them shortly. Thanks, much, again. These are my first chickens and this, my first post on this forum. I'm glad for the advice.
     
  9. crystal1957

    crystal1957 Songster

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    dawg53--You had posted something a LONG time ago I think--which indicated to worm first with Wazine, then wait the appropriate time and follow up with Valbazen. So I am confused. Noticed a stool yesterday that had thin looking red wormy things--gapeworm or stomach lining perhaps? I just don't know sorry. What are red looking worms--I couldn't tell if they were attached or not...

    Here's your original post from 2010: Not trying to put you on the spot--but don't want to buy both...if just the Valbazen would be the way to go. Also, one hen has a bit of a cough--should I just treat her--can I treat the entire flock for this AND worm simultaneously?


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    On the 10th day after using wazine. I recommend a second type of wormer...you have the choice of the following: Ivermectin, Safeguard or Valbazen. All are off label wormers for horses,cattle or sheep, but can be given to chickens in smaller quantity, it's a matter of giving the correct dosage. I prefer Valbazen...it'll kill just about every kind of worm there is, including tapeworms. The other wormers are excellent wormers too, but wont kill tapeworms. You can read up on these wormers and choose which one you want to use and I'll give you the dosage for chickens.


    Owner of 1 Speckled Sussex rooster, 3 Barred Rock hens, 2 Silver Spangled Hamburgs, 2 Light Brahmas, 1 Speckled Sussex, 4 Black Stars, 2 Rhode Island Reds, 2 mutts, and one tame Easter Egger named Susie. RIP Sarge.
    Forewarned is Forearmed
     
  10. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    Yes that was 2 years ago. I now recommend valbazen and/or safeguard, some horse wormers such as zimectrin gold for treating tapeworms.
     

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