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i know but no one around here breeds for show. and i normally order from Strombergs but even they have been out.

and because (in my case) in a hopeful attempt of them getting the correct birds when i ordered them all other hatcheries were completely out of everything. bought them for show and cant use them now

i ordered RIR before and they sent me production reds and some RIR mixed with something else before. ordered barred rocks and they sent me sapphire gems. oh and my current Buff Orpintgons that are buff but not Orptingtons

yep. just look at Midnight Onyx'sand Rudd Rangers thats hoovers hatchery developed breed. they like to come up with "new breeds"

ive had them send me (obvious) crosses numerous times. its why i dont like ordering from them anymore.

hoovers has thats why i suggested sry

possible cross?

black cochins quite possibly