** 2017 New Drug Law - What Are Your Plans? **

shortgrass said:

Quote: @shortgrass This is what I was talking about, and the point I was trying to make......"The influence of the farmers who created the movement, farmers who understood the relation of soil quality to food quality and avoided any products that might contaminate their soil, was quickly marginalized in favor of expediency once the organic label became big business and the marketers and merchandisers took over. " - Eliot Coleman
From about halfway down the transcript of his speech here: https://www.cornucopia.org/2017/02/adventure-organic-farming/#more-22670

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aart said:

@shortgrass
 This is what I was talking about, and the point I was trying to make......"[COLOR=545454]The influence of the farmers who created the movement, farmers who understood the relation of soil quality to food quality and avoided any products that might contaminate their soil, was quickly marginalized in favor of expediency once the organic label became big business and the marketers and merchandisers took over. " - Eliot Coleman[/COLOR]
[COLOR=545454]From about halfway down the transcript of his speech here: https://www.cornucopia.org/2017/02/adventure-organic-farming/#more-22670[/COLOR]

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tlzimmerman said:

"But modern doesn't have to include round up and huge amounts of phosphates in the soil."

I am not sure what you are referring to about the phosphates. Our soil composition is studied, and we use all types of fertilizers depending on what is needed where, including manure, or synthetic nitrogen or phos. The thing about manure is, you can't really control what it contains......so you end up with extra of one compound or another sometimes. With our current technology we can map the yield in the fields as they are harvested, as well as map soil samples over the ground and program the sprayers or manure spreaders to apply more or less to specific areas of the field to balance things as best we can and be the most efficient we can. We can do the same when applying herbicides. Our modern machines even shut themselves off section by section as you come to the end of the field so we don't double spray, and apply only the amounts necessary. We don't even really use pesticides anymore because BT corn reduces our need to. Fungicides go on the wheat to reduce rust if we have wet years, and those are WAY safer than the old school fungicides like copper sulfate, which is organic approved .


No till farming is almost absolutely necessary in my part of the world. We live in an arid climate, with little irrigation. Year in and year out the biggest precursor to success or failure in our crops is rain, and how well we manage the moisture in our ground. This means that we till as little as possible, and the only way to control weeds without tilling is with products like roundup. Sure, we could go back to raising half as much as we do now....but farms out here would go under at an even more staggering rate than they do now if we did that. Corn where I live isn't really a viable crop most years if you have to cultivate it, but it becomes not only a viable option but a valuable tool when you add the roundup ready component. We can conserve the little moisture we have to get the highest yields possible, while also rotating it to places that have bind weed or grasses that are difficult to control if they are in a crop like wheat, but easy to control if you use roundup.

"Modern ag can be without the use of "inorganic chemicals." Not if we want to continue to achieve the yield increases and steady advances that have produced a surplus of food in our country even in the face of staggering population growth. We use less land and inputs to feed a person now than ever in human history....and its because of technology. Make no doubts about it.

"I hope its the right to make an informed decision and its not being forced by propaganda or false information is all." So do I, which is why I advocate and fight for modern agriculture and the use of these approved products as much as I can. Its why I bristle when people think the grain I produce is somehow poisoned. It isn't! Its why I shake my head when people say their chickens they raise are hormone free......alluding to the fact that chicken in the store has hormones. In reality, it is illegal to use hormones in pork and poultry production....ALL chicken is hormone free. Only beef has approved hormones, and the amount of hormone in an implant for a 12-1400 pound animal is 1/4000th the amount in a single birth control pill a woman takes. Its why I want to cry when people think the beef I produce has antibiotics in it, when 99% of the animals from birth to slaughter will never receive antibiotics....and the other 1% is well past their withdrawal period, and they have absolutely no antibiotic left in their system. The propaganda out there against everything I do is staggering.....and its put out there by people who have never stepped foot on a farm or who have a clear dollar to gain by hoping more consumers fear conventionally produced food. The science behind this stuff is very VERY sound. Without it......our operation couldn't exist. It would take way more manpower, way more time, it would cost way more, and in the end it would produce less.

We use antibiotics in our cattle only when necessary as well. I am doctoring one of mine now because she got a splinter rubbing on a tree and it abscessed. I have been around cattle people from small guys, to guys who own multiple 40-50000 head feedlots. Nobody doses with antibiotics without it being necessary. It introduces stress when you handle the animal, not to mention just the cost of the drugs themselves. Nuflor is $1 a mL......gets pricey quick!

"Back to antibiotics. Why does the government have to mandate something that we should have been more careful with in the first place?" I don't think they had to, I think they were lobbied by the same groups that tell you feedlot cattle are given antibiotics every day....when they aren't. I think it was driven by propaganda, and so do most of the producers and vets in my area. Same thing as groups of people trying to get the government to outlaw atrazine, or glyphosate, or any of these other chemicals they think are evil.

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