Some questions about these peafowls [patterns on wings]

Took pictures of these peacocks at San Diego Zoo on Sunday. Unforunately, they didn't turn out great(although one looks nice in a whole picture!).

This old looking fellow has similar coloring on the barred zone as in the opening post. Too bad the picture did not come out clear... but you should get the idea:



This guy up in a tree seems to have what some are saying is the sign of a black shoulder split:



I don't recall ever seeing a black shoulder at the zoo over the years though... has anybody seen and even better, taken picture or video of a black shoulder at the zoo?

Either split white or dark pieds were pretty common though- all males I saw showed some white feathers on wings, the peahens had their wings well tucked away,preventing any visible sign of white feathers so I couldn't tell if most or all of them had it too.

Oh, I think I found similar pictures hmm...like, with this like you're showing as well :

Taken at our local Zoo in 2011 :

This is King


And this is Fai, though he only had it on his right shoulder




We don't have any BS either here, so I doubt they can be Split to BS, and their dark blue patterns aren't as obvious as the ones in Australia I posted previously, but...I need to pay a visit again and see if I can spot these guys again. >.>

If it's a product of domestication or some sort of change due to age, well I think it shouldn't be too hard to find them again by now.
We've got a lot of Dark Pieds too ~

Dany12 said:

Black shoulder and IB split black shoulder.

Click to expand...

So are the two spaldings still BS and split to BS ?
Because if that's the case then what we're showing certainly ain't Split to BS indeed.
Guess like Kev said, it'll take time to find what it is exactly.

Any of you saw the patterns we're discussing about on a wild peafowl picture before ?

It's normal for spaldings to have larger number of dark/colorful feathers on their wings. They're in concept somewhere in middle between the limited number found on pure Indians & Greens, which the whole wing can be dark, but some sub species you still can see a minimal amount of barring high up on the wing by the shoulder part. It has "nothing to do with the black shoulder gene" because black shoulder is clearly a simple, single gene that has clear cut effects on birds of both sexes. The dark wings on Greens seems to be due to many separate genes in action. Further proof black shoulder is something unique is the fact if you introduce into spaldings, the males have a solid wing just like any India black shoulder and even more tellingly, the females still are white colored with varying amounts of black & chicks are born white/cream. The females can be bred to be much darker than any Indian black shoulder though with tons more black on the body.

I have never seen the "discoloring" on wings of wild peacocks. I think another clue to possible side effect of domestication... There are other differences too, captive Indians are shorter necked, legged and "looser feathered".. one very obvious difference is the pattern of white skin on the faces- wild Indias have clear, crisp parallel lines below and above the eyes, which are almost by default, interrupted by the eye or the top stripe ends by the eye in domestics. Some have just a white line between the eye and beak. These differences really remind me of how dogs are different from wolves- smaller skulls, teeth and other anatomical differences. Check out the fox experiment showing effects of domestication:

http://scienceblogs.com/thoughtfulanimal/2010/06/monday_pets_the_russian_fox_st.php

note it brought about physical changes without any hybridizing.. (not that hybrid causes are impossible, just saying not necessary for changes or mutations)

That's what I thought, thanks for answering about the spauldings.

It's impressive what changes can be made via domestication. I found a pic of what I think could be a Split to BS, but I'm not too sure :

Black Shoulder Peacock here :



And the one I supposed could be a Split to BS OR he is a little spaulding with a low percent ?

Other pic, different bird :


It's completely different from what we're talking about, indeed.
I personally doubt the peas at my Zoo can be hybrids with green, we don't have Greens on the territory, but then again, I wouldn't know how it was where they were before they were imported (if they were imported at all).
So far I think your Domestication hypothese might work, Kev.