stinky infection help? (graphic photos) w/ frostbite

UPDATE:

Day three of treatment, I felt like I was failing him. two weeks five days ago, I lost confidence in myself. I lost confidence in my ability. I lost confidence , and panic set in. The situation was getting much worse by the hour. all the time I was working on him, he never lost faith in me. but that didn't matter, I had lost faith in myself. I turned to BYC for help. The help I was looking for, didn't come in the form I thought it would. at the time, I was hoping someone would take the reins, and tell me what to do. hoping someone would tell me something new. something I hadn't tried. Then someone suggested something that, in my heart, I knew was the wrong course. knowing , if I had to take that step, it was a last ditch effort, that would ultimately end in failure. All my confidence came rushing back. I knew what I was doing was the only course to take, and that it would work. When my hands were tired and shaking, or my heart hurt from the looking of his foot, he would coo to me. little churrups and peeps. he would poke his head out of the towel and look at me. as if to say. you got this, don't quit. I trust you. The entire time I worked on him he never gave up on me. he rewarded me on day six by belting out a crow that came up from his heart. He knew I was going to save him. He knew I was going to save his foot. which is pretty incredible since I had to skin his leg from the spur down, stopping at the nails, during the three surgeries. chasing the infection.

This morning:

When I called him in to be checked he brought all his girls up to the house with him. here they are waiting patiently. ( please pardon the dog nose art. I wash the slider two times a week, and five minute later it looks like this.)

I opened the door for him, he churruped to his girls to say what I could only image was "stay put. I have to get my foot checked, and I will be right back out." He ran through the house, said hi to the dog, and hopped up onto the counter. before I had a towel in place.


I grabbed a towel, and my camera. I was delighted to find that he is healing so much better than I would have ever thought.
here is an updated photo of his injury.


as you can see the infection is gone. his foot is healing rapidly. the other exterior layer of flesh is peeling back on it's own to reveal a brand new foot. (there is a healing open wound under that skin that I treated with avian cut'n'heal after the photo). Before you ask, yes he is able to move his toes. Just minor small adjustments, at this point. Over several days, he has managed to tuck his pinky toe almost into line with the others. I have no doubt that he will regain most if not all mobility and function of his foot. especially since I was able to maintain the integrity of his tendons.
his thumb toe has remained and it too is returning to a normal healthy pink.


edited to add photos

I'm glad it is getting better. I am dealing with a particularly nasty infection in the toe of one of my roosters that has been very frustrating to me. I've never had an infection in the past which couldn't be easily remedied. Commonly known as bumblefoot, this has been a staph infection which seemed to be improving at first, but the swelling returned with use of Trimethoprim sulfa and silvadene as a topical as instructed by a vet. When an infection gets in the joint, it is much more difficult for most antibiotics to reach the point of infection. Baytril, Clavamox, Cephalexin all would have been more appropriate for this type of infection. Of course, the best way is to have a culture test done at a lab. Then the right antibiotic can be used right off the bat.

Michael Apple said:

I'm glad it is getting better. I am dealing with a particularly nasty infection in the toe of one of my roosters that has been very frustrating to me. I've never had an infection in the past which couldn't be easily remedied. Commonly known as bumblefoot, this has been a staph infection which seemed to be improving at first, but the swelling returned When an infection gets in the joint, it is much more difficult for most antibiotics to reach the point of infection. Baytril, Clavamox, Cephalexin all would have been more appropriate for this type of infection. Of course, the best way is to have a culture test done at a lab. Then the right antibiotic can be used right off the bat.

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I am furious on your behalf. Seriously?! You say, and I quote - with use of Trimethoprim sulfa and silvadene as a topical as instructed by a vet. Baytril. Clavamox, Cephalexin would have been more appropriate for this type of infection. You ARE using baytril!(correction you are using bactrim) The first Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole aka bactrim is a broad spectrum antibiotic that can cause birth defects. * the third Baytril, the FDA withdrew approval for treatment of poultry with this drug 10 years ago. the fourth Clavamox aka Amoxicillin/clavulanic acid of which staph isn't even in the top 30 for treating? and the fifth cephalexin can only treat a small list of staph that isn't cillin resistant. they each work to hijack the immune system instead of supporting it. How much did you say you paid a lab? Only to be given a prescription for a broad spectrum anyway?

I agree whole heartedly with lab testing , my vet was not to hand at the time, Thank goodness I have a microscope, and petri dishes of my own. my little petri dishes told me that penicillin inj. would do the job.


Silvadene aka Silver Sulfadiazine cream is wonderful in the treatment of burns, as they are often sterile to begin with. Also, minor abrasions that have been sterilized.
it works by creating a barrier kind of like a phalanx of greek shields. there is a downside to using it. if an established infection is present it keeps it locked in. like the soldiers holding the shields.

have to wait another day or so before I can use it on Einstein.


Penicillin treats- Streptococci,Staphylococci, Clostridium, and Listeria genera.
see where I am going with this?

edited to reflect a spelling typo on drug name.
* bactrim aka Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole is a broad spectrum antibiotic. which can cause birth defects
Baytril aka Enrofloxacin in September 2005, the FDA withdrew approval of Baytril for use in treating flocks of poultry, as this practice was noted to promote the evolution of fluoroquinolone-resistant strains of the bacterium Campylobacter. , a known human pathogen**. Clavamox aka Amoxicillin/clavulanic acid is also a broad spectrum but many staph are resistant to it, Cephalexin is also a broad spectrum, and is effective to only a thimble full of strains.

** A pathogen The term is most often used for agents that disrupt the normal physiology of a multicellular animal or plant. a biological agent that causes disease or illness to its host. that does not cause your immune system to produce antibodies against it.
An antigen is any substance that causes your immune system to produce antibodies against it. An antigen may be a foreign substance from the environment, such as chemicals, bacteria, viruses, or pollen. An antigen may also be formed inside the body, as with bacterial toxins or tissue cells.

Trimethoprim Sulfa is not the same as Enrofloxacin (Baytril).

Michael Apple said:

Trimethoprim Sulfa is not the same as Enrofloxacin (Baytril).

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typo or not. baytril bactrim my reaction still stands. it's a broad spectrum and you paid to get a specific result. you should be furious with your vet and the lab. I would approach your vet about it.

silky smooth said:

typo or not. baytril bactrim my reaction still stands. it's a broad spectrum and you paid to get a specific result. you should be furious with your vet and the lab. I would approach your vet about it.

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That would be an overreaction. I declined the culture & sensitivity test, so it is partially my fault. Sure, the vet should have prescribed the most current antibiotic effective against staph/ E. coli. I went on his recommendation of Trimethoprim-sulfa despite my knowledge of antibiotics. All it did was confirm to me that this vet prescribed a drug that wasn't very effective, either to get me back to spend more money, or because he wasn't that knowledgeable. Avian vets in my area categorize birds as "exotics". That way they can charge more because they supposedly run an exclusive operation. I won't waste time with them anymore. If I can't remedy the problem this time, or if there's a next time, the bird gets put down mercifully.

Michael Apple said:

That would be an overreaction. I declined the culture & sensitivity test, so it is partially my fault. Sure, the vet should have prescribed the most current antibiotic effective against staph/ E. coli. I went on his recommendation of Trimethoprim-sulfa despite my knowledge of antibiotics. All it did was confirm to me that this vet prescribed a drug that wasn't very effective, either to get me back to spend more money, or because he wasn't that knowledgeable. Avian vets in my area categorize birds as "exotics". That way they can charge more because they supposedly run an exclusive operation. I won't waste time with them anymore. If I can't remedy the problem this time, or if there's a next time, the bird gets put down mercifully.

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you have just found a hot button of mine. Sometimes we run into people that should know better than us, but don't. Some will take our knowledge and be thankful for it, and some will not. It is a shame that some vets can say they are specialists, and charge as if they are. Bad vets will just get outraged that you have more knowledge than them without all the student loans and pretty letters after your name. Don't get me wrong though, some specialized vets are amazing. and will take in new information. anything to help out a sick animal. if it worked and has a good basis in medical theory they will add it to the next case with similar parameters.
however even farm vets think of most chickens as disposable. no matter how much they mean to us or our children. No matter how attached I am. so it's not a stretch for a bird vet to think the same thing, and charge more for their services while they are at it. "look lady, it's not like your chicken is a very expensive parrot with a super long life span, after all. it's just a dumb chicken, they are cheap just go buy another" (i was actually told this by an avian vet once).

then he said "if you know so Bleeping much, what do you need me for? I said "your prescription pad. stop cussing at me, and start writing! write it out for _________!" he did, and I never went back. This was just after the first winter I got my own flock of chickens. I now have a good farm vet of my own.

silky smooth said:

you have just found a hot button of mine. Sometimes we run into people that should know better than us, but don't. Some will take our knowledge and be thankful for it, and some will not.  It is a shame that some vets can say they are specialists, and charge as if they are. Bad vets will just get outraged that you have more knowledge than them without all the student loans and pretty letters after your name. Don't get me wrong though, some specialized vets are amazing. and will take in new information. anything to help out a sick animal. if it worked and has a good basis in medical theory they will add it to the next case with similar parameters. 
however even farm vets think of most chickens as disposable.  no matter how much they mean to us or our children. No matter how attached I am. so it's not a stretch for a bird vet to think the same thing, and charge more for their services while they are at it. "look lady, it's not like your chicken is a very expensive parrot with a super long life span, after all. it's just a dumb chicken, they are cheap just go buy another" (i was actually told this by an avian vet once). 

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I am astounded! I wholeheartedly agree with your statement (although, my vet is fantastic!) too many people (vets) are like this, although not once have I had someone say to my face something like that, they clearly hint at it. They don't. Care. - sadly

silky smooth said:

I have never had to treat a rat bite before. this is new for me.

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I want to clarify this statement. I have treated both rat bite, and frostbite, just never together in the same subject at the same time.