(Newbie post) 3mo Lavender Orpington suddenly can’t stand or sit up; no obvious injury

[Vinaigrettchen]

I found my 3 month old Lavender Orpington lying on her side in the coop three days ago, barely able to move at all. She seemed perfectly fine when I checked on the flock the previous evening. The rest of my flock, which includes 2 others of the same breed & age, have not exhibited any similar symptoms. They came from a hatchery and are not vaccinated.

I brought her into the house and was able to get her to drink some water and nibble at some crumble mash. She could move her wings and legs when I touched or moved them, but seemed very weak, completely unable to stand or even to sit up, and could move her head but not a lot. If I tried to sit her up, she just flopped over onto her side with her legs stretched out straight in front of where she flopped over. Her feet were curled but she could uncurl them. I couldn’t find any sign of trauma, crop issues, mites, or worms. She can see fine and seems pretty alert when someone walks in the room. The only other really obvious thing was that she had diarrhea (normal brown color).

She has improved some with treatment (detailed below), can sit up somewhat if I help her tuck her legs under her, but not fully on her own—I prop her up a bit with a towel. Her poo has solidified more as well; not totally normal yet but significantly less runny and it is brown & white. This is encouraging but I’m still really concerned about her legs—if she is just weak but can recover, then that’s one thing, but if she’s really paralyzed I don’t want to prolong her suffering. After 3 days she still is totally dependent on assistance getting to food & water. I guess what I want to ask y’all is, how long would you give a pullet like this to recover before deciding to cull? A few days, a week, a month? If you’ve had a chicken like this actually return to health, how long did it take? Is there any way to tell if they’re truly paralyzed if they can still move a little, or is it just a wait-and-see game?

Treatment so far:
-Water with a Rooster Booster product (the one with vitamins, electrolytes, and probiotics)
-Corid given orally with a syringe once a day; today is day 2. Did this on account of the diarrhea and seems to be helping. About 0.3 mL, undiluted (she weighs about 2 lbs)
-An epsom salt bath-she’s not old enough to lay yet but she needed a bath to get dried poo clumps off her anyway, so I figured may as well do the epsom salts
-today also started giving her raw egg yolk via syringe (honestly it took me a while to figure out how to get her beak open to use a syringe, which is why I hadn’t tried this before! I’m learning a lot right now.)
-Rest of the flock is getting Poultry Cell; haven’t started them on Corid*

*please note I could not find a poultry vet near me and may not have access to vet services for this

 

[EggSighted4Life]

-Water with a Rooster Booster product (the one with vitamins, electrolytes, and probiotics)
-Corid given orally with a syringe once a day; today is day 2

Welcome to BYC!

Sorry you both are facing this.

Corid should not be given at the same time as vitamins (or vice versa) as it works by mimicking thiamine in order to block the coccidia from feeding on it and thereby slowing their growth..

Was your bird vaccinated against Marek's? It's very common and symptoms may present as described.

The rest of my flock, which includes 2 others of the same breed & age, have not exhibited any similar symptoms. They came from a hatchery and are not vaccinated.

Ah, I see.. each has their own individual immune system. Marek's should be a strong consideration. It's not the scary death sentence it sounds like though most of the time..

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

Other things that might look similar.. lymphoid leukosis, maybe a few more.. if you decide to cull.. you could also refrigerate the body and send for necropsy.. free or affordable for backyard keepers in many states (in the US). Get a diagnosis, see if there's any concern or thing to do for the rest of your flock and future keeping adventure. I can provide links if desired or some contact information may be found here..

https://www.metzerfarms.com/poultry-labs.html

I guess what I want to ask y’all is, how long would you give a pullet like this to recover before deciding to cull? A few days, a week, a month?

3 weeks my first time one went lame. Depends on the situation, bird, etc.. almost every time. True deficiency might require weeks of vitamin therapy and maybe even some physical therapy to return to normal.

Now.. NO, symptomatic birds allowed.. by the end of day 1 suspicion.

These are never easy choices, hope you find answers!

Some ideas..

 

[Vinaigrettchen]

Corid should not be given at the same time as vitamins (or vice versa) as it works by mimicking thiamine in order to block the coccidia from feeding on it and thereby slowing their growth..

I see; should I take her off the Corid then or the vitamins? She had 3 days of Corid drench so maybe I’ll stop that for now and see how she does.

Thanks for all your very detailed & helpful advice. My husband might make her a chicken sling while I’m out of town this week.

She is doing better today; I removed the pine shavings and put puppy pads in her box and she seems a lot more comfortable (and the clean up is easier…if she starts scratching at it though, I’ll probably go back to the shavings so she doesn’t get into any material in the pads that she shouldn’t. But, right now she can’t do any of that).

She can sit up better, but still needs support to keep from flopping over. I hope a sling will help her get a little stronger. Her progress is encouraging but I’m not holding my breath on her regaining use of her legs just yet.

Her droppings are also getting more normal, but for every 1-2 solid poops she then has another runny one. I’m not sure what that’s about.

Was the lame chicken you were supporting able to recover after that 3 weeks, or did you end up having to cull?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Her droppings are also getting more normal, but for every 1-2 solid poops she then has another runny one. I’m not sure what that’s about.

Was the lame chicken you were supporting able to recover after that 3 weeks, or did you end up having to cull?

I would stop the Corid, if it were me.. Coccidiosis effects the guts and the appetite first, it does not cause "paralysis" (better described as ataxia, in-coordination, or poor muscle control) with a still healthy appetite, so symptoms don't fit according to my experience. That's purely neurological/ central nervous system related, what we're seeing. Brings the question of possible toxins.. needing to be ruled out.. other flock members might be showing signs by now if it were a plant, or oil spill, moldy feed, etc. in their area..

All urates pass in droppings.. the more liquid consumed (like during hot weather) may make some runnier. About every 8-10 ish is a cecal dropping.. usually extra smelly, maybe a bit yellow or thick mud looking.

Unfortunately, I culled and is why I cull sooner now. The bird was showing no signs of decline but also no signs of improved mobility. Remembering that I'm a treat miser, there's NO reason for deficiency among my flock, and also I intend to breed and harvest my birds.. keeping around ill or weak genetics can never benefit my flock but only attract more parasites, predation, disease, etc.. And I don't have extra space, time, energy, or other resources. That may not be the right answer for you. Figuring this all out is a challenge at times.. chickens are supposed to be SO easy.. but we are and life itself is complex.

I just realized.. I saw your supplement plan but not your usual feed routine including treats and supplements.. to try and help see if there is a known cause for there to be deficiency or seemingly none? Sorry, with those good supplements I guess I assumed it was good, but realize I cannot assume anything and it's at the very root of some possibilities we're discussing.

I would be sure to offer fresh water. No supplement should be given more than 10 days in a row.

I might offer the poultry cell in a little wet mash.. it didn't mix well with water, IIRC.

If that feed is crumble (I can't make it out fully).. then there's not much need for grit. Depending on what all she's getting she may need some source of appropriate sized grit provided while in confinement.

One thing worth mentioning is that vaccinating for Marek's doesn't prevent the disease or prevent it from spreading.. it just hides the symptoms when effective.. which is plenty good enough for some, especially pet only flocks.

 

[Vinaigrettchen]

I would stop the Corid, if it were me.. Coccidiosis effects the guts and the appetite first, it does not cause "paralysis" (better described as ataxia, in-coordination, or poor muscle control) with a still healthy appetite, so symptoms don't fit according to my experience. That's purely neurological/ central nervous system related, what we're seeing. Brings the question of possible toxins.. needing to be ruled out.. other flock members might be showing signs by now if it were a plant, or oil spill, moldy feed, etc. in their area..

All urates pass in droppings.. the more liquid consumed (like during hot weather) may make some runnier. About every 8-10 ish is a cecal dropping.. usually extra smelly, maybe a bit yellow or thick mud looking.

Unfortunately, I culled and is why I cull sooner now. The bird was showing no signs of decline but also no signs of improved mobility. Remembering that I'm a treat miser, there's NO reason for deficiency among my flock, and also I intend to breed and harvest my birds.. keeping around ill or weak genetics can never benefit my flock but only attract more parasites, predation, disease, etc.. And I don't have extra space, time, energy, or other resources. That may not be the right answer for you. Figuring this all out is a challenge at times.. chickens are supposed to be SO easy.. but we are and life itself is complex.

I just realized.. I saw your supplement plan but not your usual feed routine including treats and supplements.. to try and help see if there is a known cause for there to be deficiency or seemingly none? Sorry, with those good supplements I guess I assumed it was good, but realize I cannot assume anything and it's at the very root of some possibilities we're discussing.

I would be sure to offer fresh water. No supplement should be given more than 10 days in a row.

I might offer the poultry cell in a little wet mash.. it didn't mix well with water, IIRC.

If that feed is crumble (I can't make it out fully).. then there's not much need for grit. Depending on what all she's getting she may need some source of appropriate sized grit provided while in confinement.

One thing worth mentioning is that vaccinating for Marek's doesn't prevent the disease or prevent it from spreading.. it just hides the symptoms when effective.. which is plenty good enough for some, especially pet only flocks.

Definitely what I’ll be looking for is increased mobility. She has been improving in that area, albeit very very slowly. If she still can’t stand in a week when I return from my trip (my husband will be caring for her) then it may be time to make that decision. For my situation she really has to get to where she can move on her own; I can give her maybe 3 weeks to get there but at that point it will be too much of a burden. We’ve never had a sick bird before, but have had to cull after predator attacks; it’s a bummer but I’d rather cut suffering short if they can’t return to normal. They are sort of pets but…not really pets.

The whole flock is on starter/grower crumble (unmedicated), since I have a bunch of young ones around this age that aren’t laying yet, and normally don’t get other supplements except oyster shell for the laying hens. We do give them kitchen scraps that are safe for chickens, never moldy scraps and not usually a large quantity. That being said, something sitting out there could have gotten moldy, or some spilled feed. I’ll check for that. I’m thinking I’ll hold back on scraps for a while to make sure they don’t get too many. I did give them poultry cell this past week on account of the one chicken getting sick, with hopes it would help their immune systems if anybody else got sick, but it’s not a normal part of our routine. (Happily, everyone else has been very healthy.)

The sick hen got grower/starter crumble mash with water the first couple of days, plus the rooster booster vitamin water, and I syringe fed her raw egg yolk for a couple days as well. Now she is eating the crumble very well without needing it to be mashed. I also give her a bit of scrambled egg once or twice a day now, which she couldn’t eat at all at first but now gobbles up happily! Nothing else so I haven’t been giving her grit.

She’s still getting the vitamin water, freshened up daily or as needed, but I think tomorrow I’ll switch her to regular water since it’s been about a week. I didn’t realize they shouldn’t have vitamins continuously for too long.

Yeah chickens are super easy…until something goes wrong!