More baby rabbits... ~ RabbitLady I need you !!! :D

Hi everyone!

Elora's just had a little litter of 4 baby Jersey Woolies! She's a broken black otter, dad ~ Lance ~ is a smoke pearl marten.
I have their pedigree's but I still can't figure out what colours these guys are!
I can see one is broken chocolate, is he broken chocolate otter though that is the question !! What is the difference? I heard if they have white between the ears they will turn out otter?
Here are the 4 :
this one is very pale broken, ???

again the little guy


then theres this guy, thinking smoke pearl like dad but not sure?

AND there's a white kit too, no markings whatsoever. Further back in the dad's pedigree (i'm talking granddad) there's REW. Is it possible that this surfaced again in Elora's litter?!

Any advice on colouring for the above 2 kits would be great, and difference with the broken chocolate / otter.
Thanks!

Congratulations! Jersey Woolies are my first love; they will always be special to me!

Deciphering baby colors can be fun, when you know what you have and know what to look for.

"Otter" and "Marten" are Tan-patterned rabbits. They can have Self-patterned offspring, but no Agouti patterns - so far, so good.

Your doe is full color (Black), your buck a dilute (Smoke Pearl is the dilute version of Siamese Sable); they can have full color offspring, and if your doe is carrying a dilute gene, they can have dilute babies.

First off, I am betting that your "chocolate" isn't a chocolate, it's a Siamese Sable or Sable Marten. Chocolate combined with the Shaded gene would result in a bunch of unshowable "whoops!" colors; most people who know what they are doing wouldn't want to go there. Are there any Chocolate or Lilac rabbits on the pedigrees?

Tan patterned rabbits have the body color of a self-patterned rabbit, and the "trim" of the agouti pattern. They have light rings around the eyes, light/white on the insides of the ears, around the nostrils, under the jaw, between the toes, and on the belly and underside of the tail. There will be a triangle-shaped patch of lighter colored hair right behind the ears; on Otters, it is tan-colored, on Martens, it's white. Most of the broken Jersey Woolies I have seen have a lot of white on them, so some of the tan pattern markings may not be visible. Ear lacing would be your best bet - if the insides of the ears are noticeably lighter than the outsides, you are looking at tan or agouti patterning. The ears on the little broken in your pictures look pretty much the same shade of gray all over, so that one is probably self-patterned. If the ears on your little brown broken are like that, dark brown all over, it's a Siamese Sable, if they are lighter on the insides, darker on the outsides, it's a Sable Marten

The shaded gene is what gives you colors like Smoke Pearl, Siamese Sable, Sable Marten, and Sable Point. A shaded rabbit has more intense color on the "points" (ears, face, feet, and tail) and a lighter body color, much like a Siamese cat. The little broken in your pictures looks like the ear color is darker than the spot of color on its back; it looks shaded to me, so I'm calling it a Broken Smoke Pearl. The solid bunny in the other picture looks to be the same shade of grey all over, so I'm thinking most likely blue?

As for the white bunny . . . . Shaded is a weird gene. A rabbit that has two copies of shaded is called a Seal or a Blue Seal and is pretty intensely colored; it is almost as dark as the full-color black or blue. One copy of Shaded and one of something more recessive (like REW or Himi) is what gives you that Siamese-type pattern. So if your buck is a Smoke Pearl, you know he has one copy of Shaded, and one of either REW or Himi. If there is REW on the pedigree, that's probably what he has - one copy of Shaded, one copy of REW. Your doe is full-colored (black), but she could be carrying either REW or Himi - you know she has one or the other, since she has a white baby. Once again, if there is REW or Himi on the pedigree, that's going to be your best bet, but if the white baby develops dark points, it's a Himi, if not, it's a REW.

Thank you! I'm still re-reading

My buck carries the chocolate gene, I know this because the breeder guaranteed it, but I reading what you've written maybe he was wrong?
But you are correct, there is REW back in the buck's pedigree. His parents were chocolate otter and REW. This REW's parents (my bucks grandparents on the dam's side) were both REW. The chocolate otter's (sire) parents were blue otter and black otter.
As for Elora's pedigree, we can go way back.
Elora's SIRE AND DAM: sire ~ himalayan. Dam ~ broken black otter.
Elora's GRAND SIRE/DAM on SIRE's side were : broken blue otter and himalayan. Then their parents were broken blue otter and sable.
Elora's dam's parents were broken blue otter and black otter.
The buck's (Lance) parents on SIRE's side were blue otter and black otter.

I have not pictured the broken chocolate baby, because I was fairly sure he is broken chocolate. When you said about the chocolate baby that he is most likely siamese sable / sable marten ~ the siamese sable looks to be a different colour than this baby. I will get a photo up quick, to show you the colour his colour.


We will have to wait and see for the white baby, I think he will be REW however. Just because Lance/the sire's sire was REW and his great grand sire/dam both REW too.

Also ~ i was thinking maybe the little broken baby is just broken blue? As both sire and dams pedigrees have broken blue in them... ? will get more photos!

Regarding the white baby - Lance's dam was a REW. Therefore, you KNOW he got REW from her, and that's what he passed on to this baby. This is because REW is the most recessive gene in its series; the only way a rabbit can be REW is if it has inherited REW from both parents. In the C-series, the doe only had REW, so it's the only thing she could have given Lance. It doesn't matter how many rabbits on that side of the family were REW's, the doe could only give Lance one C-gene, and in her case, it was (c), the REW gene.

Elora's sire was a Himi. There are two ways that a rabbit can be a Himi; it can have two copies of the Himi gene (chch), or it can have one copy of Himi, and one of REW (chc). It's not clear from the pedigree which kind Elora's sire is, so we don't know whether she had to get the Himi gene from him, or whether she might have gotten REW. REW is recessive to Himi. If your white baby develops dark points, then it's a Himi, and you know that Elora has a Himi gene and you will never get REW's from her. If the baby remains completely white, then Elora has a REW gene. In this case, Elora is the "wild card," because you know that the buck carries REW.

As to the chocolate issue - chocolate is recessive to black. I noticed that you didn't mention any chocolate colors on the pedigrees. While it is possible to have chocolate hiding for many generations, the only way for a rabbit to be a chocolate is if it gets chocolate from both parents, so not only would Lance have to have a chocolate gene, Elora would have to have one, too. Not meaning to impugn the breeder's word, but I don't know how much confidence to put in his ability to identify colors - a lot of rabbit breeders aren't good with colors. Did you see Lance's sire? Is he a sort of milk chocolate brown all over (besides the white belly, white eye circles, white inside the ears, etc). Have you ever shown us a picture of Lance or Elora?

I'm sorry, I'm not sure. Cute kits!

Hi again, so here are the two parents :




I didn't get to see Lance's parents, but his sire was chocolate otter.
I must say I have more confidence in you than the breeder!
I actually have another litter (not at all from Lance or Elora) and 3 are himi. They were born and after 3 or so days already had the grey nose and looking at Elora's kits I don't think it's a
himi. More likely REW.

SO for the chocolate baby. How would I know wether he is siamese sable or sable marten when he's a bit bigger? I'm guessing there's a difference in colour but i can't seem to find a photo of a
broken sable marten. Could you give me an idea as to how I would determine his colour?

Thank you!
Oh and I really have to get some photos up

Farming Frenzy said:

Hi again, so here are the two parents :




I didn't get to see Lance's parents, but his sire was chocolate otter.
I must say I have more confidence in you than the breeder!
I actually have another litter (not at all from Lance or Elora) and 3 are himi. They were born and after 3 or so days already had the grey nose and looking at Elora's kits I don't think it's a
himi. More likely REW.

SO for the chocolate baby. How would I know wether he is siamese sable or sable marten when he's a bit bigger? I'm guessing there's a difference in colour but i can't seem to find a photo of a
broken sable marten. Could you give me an idea as to how I would determine his colour?

Thank you!
Oh and I really have to get some photos up

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Those are so cute!!!1

BantamFan4Life-
thank you!
they're trouble though

Farming Frenzy said:

BantamFan4Life-
thank you!

they're trouble though

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You're welcome!