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Another question but this time about breeding these little white quail

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 

If bread with other types of quail such at brown pharaoh and goldens, what can be expected in progeny characteristics?  I was told that the white is recessive.  Does that mean the white will not show in the young?  I think I read somewhere about getting tuxedo types from such mixed breeding.  Unfortunately the man who sold me the white eggs lost his male to stress and I only have one survival from my hatch and its sex is undetermined.  Id love to get some more fertile eggs from his girls and am trying to convince him to try adding some of my males brown pharaohs and/or goldens to his flock of now only females so we can get some more fertile eggs.  It is mainly the size of quail I am aiming for, not necessarily any color.  My male who sounded like a squeaker toy was taken by a skunk and I so miss his little voice.  Im anxious to listen to similar crows in the future.

-Robin-
Let your life speak for you...it is said, "How you live your life speaks so loudly that others can't hear what you are saying anyway."
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-Robin-
Let your life speak for you...it is said, "How you live your life speaks so loudly that others can't hear what you are saying anyway."
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post #2 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobzi View Post
 

If bread with other types of quail such at brown pharaoh and goldens, what can be expected in progeny characteristics?  I was told that the white is recessive.  Does that mean the white will not show in the young?  I think I read somewhere about getting tuxedo types from such mixed breeding.  Unfortunately the man who sold me the white eggs lost his male to stress and I only have one survival from my hatch and its sex is undetermined.  Id love to get some more fertile eggs from his girls and am trying to convince him to try adding some of my males brown pharaohs and/or goldens to his flock of now only females so we can get some more fertile eggs.  It is mainly the size of quail I am aiming for, not necessarily any color.  My male who sounded like a squeaker toy was taken by a skunk and I so miss his little voice.  Im anxious to listen to similar crows in the future.

A recessive trait will not show up in the chicks unless they receive an allele for that trait from each parent.  So if white is recessive and the male does not carry a gene for that trait, none of the chicks will be white.  However, all of the chicks will carry the white gene and can have white offspring if paired to another white bird, or a colored bird, that has the white recessive gene.  This is assuming that white is recessive.


Edited by nchls school - 10/21/15 at 6:06am
post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 

Yes I am aware of how genetics works, dominant, recessive but there is also incomplete dominant and perhaps the strength of the recessive white come be in question.  Tuxedo varieties of coturnix have been bread somehow.  

Seems to me it might be due to the incomplete brown and perhaps golden genes and maybe the white not being a true recessive.  Somehow folks get some very interesting looking quail varieties by playing around with mixing breeds.

Genetics are interesting and more complex than just all or nothing.  I was wondering if anyone on BYC has had experience breeding.  

Im pretty sure the eggs I received referred to as Texas A&M are more likely English whites due to the small size.

-Robin-
Let your life speak for you...it is said, "How you live your life speaks so loudly that others can't hear what you are saying anyway."
Reply
-Robin-
Let your life speak for you...it is said, "How you live your life speaks so loudly that others can't hear what you are saying anyway."
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post #4 of 8

If there are brown markings on your white birds they're just small examples of A&Ms, english whites have no brown markings. For genetic purposes A&Ms don't exist. They are referred to as recessive whites. Recessive whites are obviously recessive brown is incomplete dominant.

 

If you cross a brown bird with a white bird, there will be no white offspring. If you cross those off spring with a white bird again the majority will be white. This is what happens when you cross white over incomplete dominant. Sometimes. Now to start the gears in your brain smoking....British range is also incomplete dominant but when crossed with a white bird generates a tuxedo. British range is the only color that works the way it does. 

 

To further complicate matters golden/tibetan/scarlett are all dominant and all produce tuxedos when crossed with a white bird. Once generated, tuxedos are dominant as well. 

post #5 of 8
Thread Starter 

Now that is the authority I was hoping for!!! Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all of that.  

-Robin-
Let your life speak for you...it is said, "How you live your life speaks so loudly that others can't hear what you are saying anyway."
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-Robin-
Let your life speak for you...it is said, "How you live your life speaks so loudly that others can't hear what you are saying anyway."
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post #6 of 8
Thread Starter 

So that must mean that whites come in two sizes Jumbo and small or regular.  

-Robin-
Let your life speak for you...it is said, "How you live your life speaks so loudly that others can't hear what you are saying anyway."
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-Robin-
Let your life speak for you...it is said, "How you live your life speaks so loudly that others can't hear what you are saying anyway."
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post #7 of 8

Basically. English whites were used for the recessive white color to generate the A&M but as a bird they're pretty easy to distinguish. They will never exceed 8 ounces in weight, it isn't genetically possible for them. Though they may have off colored spots they won't be consistently located like they are on the A&M. A&Ms are basically a genetic duplicate of a pharaoh except they possess two copies of the recessive white gene for color.  

 

A&Ms can also be further diverged if they are "dual factor", meaning that one parent can sometimes possess two copies of the rec white genes. For whatever reason those birds will always be of lesser genetic quality than "single factor" birds. It's easy to distinguish between the two and I wouldn't recommend keeping dual factor birds in the flock. The dual factor birds will be characterized by a colored spot on their dorsal feathers (a brown splotch on their back). It is sometimes referred to as a dorsal bleed(mutation). 

 

ETA: Golden tuxedos will almost always have a dorsal spot, but that has no relation to the dorsal bleed in Jumbo whites. 

 

I use the color name A&M a lot but the actual A&M birds are all gone and have been for a long while. What we have now are recreations of those lines, they aren't genetically related the birds from the university of A&M (despite what people will often swear to you while selling them). Properly they are jumbo whites and once that color name finally catches on maybe some of the myths surrounding them can be dissolved. I've eaten hundreds and still haven't found one of those white meat A&ms people claim they have....


Edited by dc3085 - 10/21/15 at 12:21pm
post #8 of 8
Thread Starter 

Very interesting.  I had a little white one with the bleed on its wing.  I used to call it Nilli with chocolate sauce.  Now I know what caused the brown on the wing (maybe body feathers), not sure which it was.  I could see close up the pharaoh striping though so I sort of suspected it had some genetic bleeding from brown pharaoh genetics.  

Will the whites ever have a golden bleed or some kind of mix of the gold and white?

 I  have at least one fawn colored quail I just got and is too young to show its sex.  What pretty bird it is. I fell in love with its look so much that I bought it not caring if it was a male or female.  I was shopping for females to accompany my males.

Do you know what the genetics are behind the fawn coloration?

-Robin-
Let your life speak for you...it is said, "How you live your life speaks so loudly that others can't hear what you are saying anyway."
Reply
-Robin-
Let your life speak for you...it is said, "How you live your life speaks so loudly that others can't hear what you are saying anyway."
Reply
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