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INCUBATING w/FRIENDS! come HATCH, LEARN, & Chat! w/hosts, Sally Sunshine & BantyChooks - Page 4906
Featured Stories on BackYard Chickenspost #49052 of 1576312/7/16 at 5:30pmpost #49053 of 1576312/7/16 at 5:30pmpost #49054 of 1576312/7/16 at 5:32pmQuote:
You ask that question at hatchaholics anonymous?
You will be addicted, but don't worry, there are enough enablers here to encourage you to do it again, and again, and again..........post #49055 of 1576312/7/16 at 5:32pmpost #49056 of 1576312/7/16 at 5:33pmThread StarterQuote:Originally Posted by MotorcycleChick
I am not going to freak out. Everything is okay. The chicks I candled are still alive. It is going to be okay.
Okay! So the air cells are kinda small. Well, maybe not. According to the three pencil line drawing they are day 14. According the the "humidity too high, just right, too low" they are fine.
Am I missing something, or are those drawing different?
Regardless, I am far enough along that I upped the humidity.
OMG you are killin me!!Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
yes see quote below how are you?Quote:Originally Posted by Sally Sunshine
MARKING AIR CELLS DAY 18,
DRAW DOWN, INTERNAL PIP,
EXTERNAL PIP, and ZIPPING
THESE ARE NOT THE SAME PATIENCE is a MUST!
Also suggest reading: Hatching Behavior & How the chick Comes out of the Shell post #34865
MARKING AIR CELLS DAY 18
Candle day 18 is to determine growth, weigh, pencil mark air cell size and dispose bad eggs. It will look pretty dark and FULL in there! You may or may not see movement on this candle. Its ok if not, don’t panic! The chick may easily be resting! The embryo now occupies most of space within the egg, but NOT the air cell, the beak is against the inner shell membrane and ready to pierce it.
See how that air cell is beginning to dip more to one side and if you lay the egg down it will roll into the hatching position. I set my eggs with lowest dip in the aircell up. This position for hatching is good so the chick is able to turn into position and I can easily see my pips too! Setting eggs horizontal in the hatcher actually can aid a chick to hatch 1-2 hours earlier. (HOWEVER, shipped eggs that have had loose air cells or saddle air cells, should be hatched upright but tilted just enough so that the lowest dip is somewhat upright, so if they have fluid in the air cell it may prevent drowning).
AGAIN, I lay my eggs down LOWEST DIP of the AIR CELL UP! see below images, this is the normal and most likely hatching position and the chick will break through or Internally pip and externally pip in that probable area. See the image below with the x, x being lowest dip in air cell and probably pip area/s.
Chick normal hatching position, Where to place your X, Example of chick position/beak in shell
before internal pip drawing below: image below:
GOOD LOOKING MARKED AIR CELLS and SIZE: images below
WHY LAY HATCHING EGGS HORIZONTAL TOUCHING:
It is now known that the different embryos communicate with each other by a series of clicking sounds, the rate of clicking being the important feature. Ensuring the eggs on the hatching eggs are in contact with each other facilitates the synchronization of hatching where the eggs are incubated in a modern machine. This assists in reducing the time between when the first and last chicks hatch.
BELOW IMAGES & DRAWINGS: Although air cells begin to take this dip/shift appearance slowly throughout the incubation due to weight loss, there is still a big DRAW DOWN just before internal pipping (IP) and you may or may not see this at day 18 candle! DRAW DOWN is when the embryo tucks and pip into the air cell, sometimes during you can see in the high part inside the back they pop up inside as well! good sign!!!
Video of candle below will show DRAW DOWN AND INTERNAL PIP!
THE INTERNAL PIP
Toward the end of standard chicken egg incubation, at approximately day 19, the embryo pierces the air sac membrane with its beak, this is called INTERNAL PIP/PIPPING or (IP) and then has a rest period which could be up to an 24 hour gap before EXTERNAL PIPPING (EP) where the chick pips a crack/rupture in the OUTER SHELL. (Dawes, 1981; Burton and Tullett, 1985),
The IP-EP intervals are found to increase with longer egg storage time average 5 hours longer. (Tona et al., 2003) Another possibility is that the longer IP-EP interval is related to a lower incubation temperature in the last phase of incubation. A lower incubation temperature during late incubation was associated with lower embryonic metabolism, resulting in a lower build-up of CO2 in the air cell (Willemsen et al., 2011), which was shown to increase the length of the IP-EP interval (Visschedijk, 1968).
After the embryo internally pips the air sac, the respiratory system transitions from passive gas change by the CAM to active convective gas exchange via the lungs in preparation for hatching (Ar et al., 1980). During this period, Oxygen exchange by the CAM becomes the primary issue, the embryo depends exclusively on what the lungs can provide, thus limiting the O2 supply (Arand Rahn, 1985). Visschedijk (1968a,b) suggested that EP/EXTERNAL PIPPING is stimulated by a decreased O2 content and increased CO2content in the air sac.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO OPEN INCUBATOR VENTS DURING HATCH DAYS AND NOT USE THEM TO CONTROL HUMIDITY!
THE EXTERNAL PIP
The external pip or crack will appear on the 20th Day on the outer shell. AFTER the embryo internally pipped the air sac and became a chick and breathed in air by piercing the air cell, it will rest again which could be up to an 24 hour gap before the final less that hour ZIP/ZIPPING to hatch out of the shell.Quote:Quote:EXTERNAL PIPPING (EP) is stimulated by a decreased O2 content and increased CO2content in the air sac. During this final rest gap/stage the allantois will continue to dry up as the chick starts to use its own lungs. This stage of hatching the ductus arteriosus (DA) is an embryonic blood vessel that connects the pulmonary arteries to the aorta (Bergwerff et al.1999). This ensures adequate gas exchange by allowing a right-to-left shunt of right ventricular output away from the unventilated lungs and towards the embryonic gas exchanger, which is the chorioallantoic membrane in birds. During hatching in birds, the paired DA constrict preferentially proximal to the pulmonary artery, resulting in the disappearance of the right-to-left shunt and increased blood flow through the pulmonary arteries to the lungs.DO NOT PICK THE PIP!DO NOT PICK THE PIP!LET THEM ALONE TO REST!READ AND UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS!99% of the time if a chick has an external pip it will get out on its own w/ the correct humidity unless there were major incubation issues!If you get them out early and they are not absorbed I am not helping you save them. ok I would anyways but I will be mad and upset! let them alone please! It takes up to and sometimes more than 24 hours from external pip to getting to a short zip and out. I have helped so many people that just wont let them alone and end up killing them it makes me sick to me belly. And I have to try and be careful asking " HOW THE BLEEP did that thing hatch like that?" when I know the answers and then everyone is all like.... "OMG it did hatch with that huge yolk hanging, what do I do, I feel so bad...." Experienced hatchers know they dont come out with yolk unabsorbed unless there was a major temp spike and even then its doesnt look like someone prematurely assisted!Keep that humidity up as your egg needed it, you understand how the cold air hits you when your inside after you open the front door of your house? Everytime you open that bator you are taking all the good humidity that's gathered in all those pores of the egg, sucking it right off the egg shells. Never make the pips LARGER than normal as it drys them out even faster and can actually slow hatching progress. SO PLEASE UNDERSTAND THE HATCHING PROCESS!
EXTERNAL PIP IMAGES will SLOWLY get larger during the rest stage!
THE ZIP / ZIPPING Final HATCH OUT!
THIS STAGE LOOKS ALMOST LIKE A ZIPPER ON YOUR JACKET!
IT ONLY LASTS UP TO 45-90 minutes for chicken eggs!
The final hatch is very quick compared to the previous gaps/stages! The Chick will continued to push through the shell, using its egg tooth.The chick will take a few short rests, changed position, turn and keep cutting through the shell until its head fall free of the opened shell. It will then kick off the bottom part of the shell and then rest exhausted while its navel opening heals and its downy feathers dry off. HATCH COMPLETE
htQuote:Quote:Originally Posted by casportpony
@Sally Sunshine, this is a great piece of info!Quote:Originally Posted by Sally SunshineA NOTE.... and I know your a shell picker as we had discussed before. HOWEVER.... When the chicks circle inside the egg during ZIP stage, they actually twist navel strings/veins and this helps shut down and close them off, if they have too big of an area to get out/or you help them before this happens, they can bleed....
yep, common sense after you do it a while but its one of those DOHs that hit you
Ducks are much worse, as they go round more than once, creating a bigger and bigger hole until they get out... most people interviene with ducks seeing a big hole up top when in fact they are still resting and doing their turns inside.... ducks are such a hard call when assisting or not....
CHICKS CAN GET STUCK IN THE ZIPPING STAGE
AGAIN THIS SHOULD ONLY LAST 45-90 Minutes!!
The IMAGES BELOW are of chicks that needed assistance because they went for way too many hours in the zipping stage!THESE HAVE BEEN STUCK OVER 90 minutes!!!THESE NEEDED ASSISTANCE!
"open that up and get her out!!
a zip IT ONLY LASTS UP TO 45-90 minutes for chicken eggs!!"
"put a damp HOT rag in the bator when you grab him out, not on eggs though! If the chick is sticky or goopie it will need washed off! I run the tap water warm and hold the chick under it and wash NOT GETTING WATER ON ITS HEAD OR NOSTRILS! After that dry it off with a warm dry rag and put under heat lamp in the brooder or return to the bator!"
"THE OTHER ONE too, with the arrow below, if its chirping like mad you may have to check it out. it looks funny for just a pip!"
Its out! the second one without my help thank tha lord!
SOMETIMES these chicks will need extra extra care,
and may have LEG FEET ISSUES!
Homemade Electrolyte Recipe for weak/ill chicks
2 C. Water
2 TBL. Brown Sugar, honey or molasses
1/2 tsp Salt
1/2 tsp. Baking Soda
Mix until all dry ingredients dissolve & Keep refrigerated
You could also use electrolyte drinks Gatorade or Pedialyte, or
3 drops of POLYVISOL (liquid childrens A-B-D vitamins)
Slowly drip along inner edge of lower beak,
DO NOT ASPIRATE CHICK on drop at a time!
helpful NOTES, LINKS &
Informational Post Links from this entire thread
for EVERYONE'S convenience and will continue to put them HERE:post #49057 of 1576312/7/16 at 5:33pmQuote:
Hmmm. Could be worse. You could have a couple hundred breeders/layers with babies hatching non stop during season and ordering feed by the tons.
Honest to God, I don't know how many cluckers I've got.
Edited by fire370 - 2/7/16 at 5:35pmpost #49058 of 1576312/7/16 at 5:34pmDonald trump 2016Donald trump 2016post #49059 of 1576312/7/16 at 5:34pmpost #49060 of 1576312/7/16 at 5:38pm
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