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# 16 1/2 year old gander sick. - Page 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacrystol

Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

It is, but it makes no mention of treating for gapes.
http://www.firststatevetsupply.com/store2/#/product/29822

No offense to anyone, but I think the proper Valbazen dose is 0.08ml per pound, not what First State Vet suggests.

Lacrystol, I think I remember your vet telling you that the dose was 20mg/kg, which is 0.08ml per pound.

-Kathy

How did you calculate .08ml???  it's 20mg per body weight

The 0.08 ml per pound dose = 20mg per kilogram. Math looks like this:
1 pound divided by 2.2, times 20 (mg per kilogram - mg/kg), divided by 113.6 (mg of albendazole per one ml) = number of ml to give per pound.

1 / 2.2 x 20 / 113.6 = 0.08 ml per pound.

-Kathy
With Safeguard liquid and paste the math looks like this when dosing at 50 mg/kg:
1 / 2.2 x 50 / 100 = 0.227 ml per pound (round up to 0.23ml per pound). This dose for 5 days will treat roundworms, cecal worms, gapeworms, capillary worms and probably gizzard worms, but I have not found any references regarding gizzard worm treatment.

-Kathy

This is what's on the bottle and it is what I had used to get rid of the Gape worms that my chicken had, now for just an annual dose, you would not give it to them for 5 days.

directions: Valbezen dose, mix 1cc of Valbezen with 8 CC of water, Take that mixture and give orally 2cc's per day for five days.

SO by you saying this:  No offense to anyone, but I think the proper Valbazen dose is 0.08ml per pound, not what First State Vet suggests.

Is a Terrible thing to suggest..

Silkie and Call Duck Lover - just can't have enough..
Silkie and Call Duck Lover - just can't have enough..

How's HaleBop doing? I just read the story and hope he gets better; you sound like a truly devoted pet owner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacrystol

This is what's on the bottle and it is what I had used to get rid of the Gape worms that my chicken had, now for just an annual dose, you would not give it to them for 5 days.

directions: Valbezen dose, mix 1cc of Valbezen with 8 CC of water, Take that mixture and give orally 2cc's per day for five days.

SO by you saying this:  No offense to anyone, but I think the proper Valbazen dose is 0.08ml per pound, not what First State Vet suggests.

Is a Terrible thing to suggest..

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but the instructions on the First State Vet bottle make no sense because a 10 pound chicken, duck, goose, etc. should get way more medication than a 1 pound bird, right?

One ml of Valbazen has 113.6 mg of albendazole. Add that to eight ml of water and now you have nine ml with 113.6 mg of albendazole.

• 9 / 113.6 = 12.62 mg per one ml
• 12.62 x 2 = 25.24 mg per two ml

Those directions say to give two ml (cc) to any sized bird, right?  Makes no sense to give 25 mg to all sized birds. Small ones will get too much, bigger ones will get way too little.

So I just checked the First State site and they have the exact same instructions for Safeguard.  FWIW, First State is not the only place that I have found dosing errors.

For those that don't know me, please understand that I am quite passionate about dosing birds and animals based on their weight. Also know that  I research veterinary books, publications etc before I post about doses.

Some references are:

Avian Medicine: Principles and Applications

Clinical Avian Medicine

Veterinary Parasitology Reference Manual, Fifth Edition

Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook

The National Center for Biotechnology Information

EurekaMag.com

This subject is probably a good one for this thread:

Anyone Here Good at Math? - Math and Medications​

-Kathy

Disclaimer - I have no medical training!

Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but the instructions on the First State Vet bottle make no sense because a 10 pound chicken, duck, goose, etc. should get way more medication than a 1 pound bird, right?

One ml of Valbazen has 113.6 mg of albendazole. Add that to eight ml of water and now you have nine ml with 113.6 mg of albendazole.

• 9 / 113.6 = 12.62 mg per one ml
• 12.62 x 2 = 25.24 mg per two ml

Those directions say to give two ml (cc) to any sized bird, right?  Makes no sense to give 25 mg to all sized birds. Small ones will get too much, bigger ones will get way too little.

So I just checked the First State site and they have the exact same instructions for Safeguard.  FWIW, First State is not the only place that I have found dosing errors.

For those that don't know me, please understand that I am quite passionate about dosing birds and animals based on their weight. Also know that  I research veterinary books, publications etc before I post about doses.

Some references are:

Avian Medicine: Principles and Applications

Clinical Avian Medicine

Veterinary Parasitology Reference Manual, Fifth Edition

Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook

The National Center for Biotechnology Information

EurekaMag.com

This subject is probably a good one for this thread:

Anyone Here Good at Math? - Math and Medications​

-Kathy

Disclaimer - I have no medical training!

Well first of all, those instructions are for Small Chickens, I'm looking at the bottle right now,

There are different doses for Larger birds, so for someone LIKE me who raises a LOT of Bantams, those Instructions would work PERFECTLY.  Now For my Larger chickens, I would proceed with the Large Bird dose which is different and is clarified with any and all Medications.

I, of course, have always referred back to my vet for verification and I can tell you it's pretty spot on...

Silkie and Call Duck Lover - just can't have enough..
Silkie and Call Duck Lover - just can't have enough..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacrystol

Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but the instructions on the First State Vet bottle make no sense because a 10 pound chicken, duck, goose, etc. should get way more medication than a 1 pound bird, right?

One ml of Valbazen has 113.6 mg of albendazole. Add that to eight ml of water and now you have nine ml with 113.6 mg of albendazole.

• 9 / 113.6 = 12.62 mg per one ml
• 12.62 x 2 = 25.24 mg per two ml

Those directions say to give two ml (cc) to any sized bird, right?  Makes no sense to give 25 mg to all sized birds. Small ones will get too much, bigger ones will get way too little.

So I just checked the First State site and they have the exact same instructions for Safeguard.  FWIW, First State is not the only place that I have found dosing errors.

For those that don't know me, please understand that I am quite passionate about dosing birds and animals based on their weight. Also know that  I research veterinary books, publications etc before I post about doses.

Some references are:

Avian Medicine: Principles and Applications

Clinical Avian Medicine

Veterinary Parasitology Reference Manual, Fifth Edition

Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook

The National Center for Biotechnology Information

EurekaMag.com

This subject is probably a good one for this thread:

Anyone Here Good at Math? - Math and Medications​

-Kathy

Disclaimer - I have no medical training!

Well first of all, those instructions are for Small Chickens, I'm looking at the bottle right now,

There are different doses for Larger birds, so for someone LIKE me who raises a LOT of Bantams, those Instructions would work PERFECTLY.  Now For my Larger chickens, I would proceed with the Large Bird dose which is different and is clarified with any and all Medications.

I, of course, have always referred back to my vet for verification and I can tell you it's pretty spot on...

The label on the bottle makes no mention of the size of bird. And if I remember correctly, in a PM you said your vet said the dose is 20mg/kg, which is 0.08ml per pound. Sadly people will buy that product from First State and they will under dose anything that weighs more than 2.75 pounds if they follow those instructions.

-Kathy

Edited by casportpony - 11/23/15 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

The label on the bottle makes no mention of the size of bird. And if I remember correctly, in a PM you said your vet said the dose is 20mg/kg, which is 0.08ml per pound. Sadly people will buy that product from First State and they will under dose anything that weighs more than 2.75 pounds if they follow those instructions.

-Kathy

Yes if they follow the bottle but no because he does put spefic instructions in with your Oder. And yes my vet did give specific instructions on per pound.
Silkie and Call Duck Lover - just can't have enough..
Silkie and Call Duck Lover - just can't have enough..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacrystol

Quote:
Originally Posted by casportpony

The label on the bottle makes no mention of the size of bird. And if I remember correctly, in a PM you said your vet said the dose is 20mg/kg, which is 0.08ml per pound. Sadly people will buy that product from First State and they will under dose anything that weighs more than 2.75 pounds if they follow those instructions.

-Kathy

Yes if they follow the bottle but no because he does put spefic instructions in with your Oder. And yes my vet did give specific instructions on per pound.

A five pound bird should get 45 mg albendazole for it to be effective when treating more than roundworms. Given as shown on the bottle is not enough.

-Kathy

-Kathy

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