Breeding hatchery stock to SOP, is it worth it?

AllynTal · Apr 22, 2016

K813ZRA said:
I thought an Orpington was a dual purpose breed. I just under the impression that hatchery dual purpose birds are lacking in the meat department.

Orpngtons were original developed as a dual-purpose bird but their popularity as a show bird has reduced the breed to something of an exhibition/ornamental bird. Over the years they were thought to have been out-crossed to other breeds to increase the amount of feathering that make them look distinctively large and showy; but as a proper dual-purpose bird, it'll be a crapshoot what you get from a hatchery. The White Orpington is supposed to be the best layer. The Buff is usually mediocre at best unless they've been bred to increase egg-production, but then meat suffers.

K813ZRA · Apr 22, 2016

AllynTal said:
Orpngtons were original developed as a dual-purpose bird but their popularity as a show bird has reduced the breed to something of an exhibition/ornamental bird. Over the years they were thought to have been out-crossed to other breeds to increase the amount of feathering that make them look distinctively large and showy; but as a proper dual-purpose bird, it'll be a crapshoot what you get from a hatchery. The White Orpington is supposed to be the best layer. The Buff is usually mediocre at best unless they've been bred to increase egg-production, but then meat suffers.

Thank you for the information but in the end I have decided to go with hatchery stock. I have been reading every thread I could find on here and other forums and the number of people happy with hatchery birds seems to be 1 to 1 with those who prefer breeder birds for dual purpose reasons. I have come to the conclusion that I am overthinking this and if I don't lean one way or the other I wont have any chickens at all, lol. I intend to have a total of 48 chickens for a family of four we should still have lots of eggs.

Donna R Raybon · Apr 22, 2016

If I wanted meat for tables i go with established hatchery meat breed and raise the as they recommend. Do it right and you have birds big enough to butcher in less than 12 weeks. If you want Cornish game hen you butcher at that size. If you want fryers, you butcher at that size and if you want roasters then wait and butcher at that size. This puts your time and resources to best use. Having birds timed to be big enough to go outside in simple moveable grazing pens makes for good eating, too.

With egg layers or eye candy birds,
Yes, not letting an extra roo or an old hen go to waste makes good soup or dumplings. But my experience has been I am best served by getting batch of 25 or 50 hatchery meat chicks, get them raised, butchered and in the freezer.
What I enjoy looking at or being good egg layers by far more important to me than fooling with them for meat. Buff Orpingtons are a favorite for their sweet personality and lovely eggs. They also brood s I can set eggs. Currently I have Buffs, Americaunas and French Black Copper Marans. Only the Marans am I interested in breeding for improvemevt.
Hope you enjoy your birds as that is for me the best part. My stress level goes to nothing watching my birds. Donna in Dandridge Tennessee

AllynTal · Apr 22, 2016

K813ZRA said:
Thank you for the information but in the end I have decided to go with hatchery stock. I have been reading every thread I could find on here and other forums and the number of people happy with hatchery birds seems to be 1 to 1 with those who prefer breeder birds for dual purpose reasons. I have come to the conclusion that I am overthinking this and if I don't lean one way or the other I wont have any chickens at all, lol. I intend to have a total of 48 chickens for a family of four we should still have lots of eggs.

It sounds like for what you want, hatchery stock is a fine choice. I'm not knocking hatchery birds. I found out only after I acquired a small flock that it wasn't the better choice for me. Just as an aside note, I find that a lot of folks here are happy with hatchery chickens because they're chicken collectors -- they want a variety of pretty birds so they have a pretty flock and each chicken has a name -- and/or they want eggs and meat and it doesn't matter if the chickens are cross-bred to get that. There's nothing wrong with that if that's the priority.

48 chickens are going to need a really big coop.

That's quite an enterprise. Best of luck.

K813ZRA · Apr 22, 2016

Donna R Raybon said:
If I wanted meat for tables i go with established hatchery meat breed and raise the as they recommend. Do it right and you have birds big enough to butcher in less than 12 weeks. If you want Cornish game hen you butcher at that size. If you want fryers, you butcher at that size and if you want roasters then wait and butcher at that size. This puts your time and resources to best use. Having birds timed to be big enough to go outside in simple moveable grazing pens makes for good eating, too.

With egg layers or eye candy birds,
Yes, not letting an extra roo or an old hen go to waste makes good soup or dumplings. But my experience has been I am best served by getting batch of 25 or 50 hatchery meat chicks, get them raised, butchered and in the freezer.
What I enjoy looking at or being good egg layers by far more important to me than fooling with them for meat. Buff Orpingtons are a favorite for their sweet personality and lovely eggs. They also brood s I can set eggs. Currently I have Buffs, Americaunas and French Black Copper Marans. Only the Marans am I interested in breeding for improvemevt.
Hope you enjoy your birds as that is for me the best part. My stress level goes to nothing watching my birds. Donna in Dandridge Tennessee

For me there is a reason I want to go the dual purpose route. Yes, for meat and eggs and for them to be self sufficient but another reason as well. When I was a child my grandfather raised Rhode Island Red's and we had one every Sunday for dinner. So much like you state, for me it is more about the journey or in this case trying to relive the good times I had with my grandfather. Feeding the chickens, collecting the eggs, hatching chicks, learning to butcher and having roast chicken on Sundays. An experience I can relive and share with my wife.

I guess for me, just ordering new hatchery chicks every year to butcher won't give me that feeling that I am looking for.

K813ZRA · Apr 22, 2016

AllynTal said:
It sounds like for what you want, hatchery stock is a fine choice. I'm not knocking hatchery birds. I found out only after I acquired a small flock that it wasn't the better choice for me. Just as an aside note, I find that a lot of folks here are happy with hatchery chickens because they're chicken collectors -- they want a variety of pretty birds so they have a pretty flock and each chicken has a name -- and/or they want eggs and meat and it doesn't matter if the chickens are cross-bred to get that. There's nothing wrong with that if that's the priority.

48 chickens are going to need a really big coop.

That's quite an enterprise. Best of luck.

Thank you for the best wishes. I already have plans for two coops and hope to start construction in two weeks. For the time being I have some large rabbit hutches that I am converting into a pair of brooders. I want two coops to separate the Orpingtons and the Wyandottes. Plus for me I think two smaller flocks will be fun, I don't know why but it just seems that way. I have a plan to put a coop on each side of my pool barn office.

Donna R Raybon · May 31, 2016

K813ZRA said:
Thank you for the best wishes. I already have plans for two coops and hope to start construction in two weeks. For the time being I have some large rabbit hutches that I am converting into a pair of brooders. I want two coops to separate the Orpingtons and the Wyandottes. Plus for me I think two smaller flocks will be fun, I don't know why but it just seems that way. I have a plan to put a coop on each side of my pool barn office.

If you have more than fifty feet between coops and you take it day about letting one coop out then next day other coop in a couple weeks you could have each coop trained to return to 'home coop'. Then you could let both out at same time and each would go up to correct coop at night. The roosters would have to negotiate territory. If given enough cover and good hangout areas everyone gets along.

And when you want to hatch off you would pen hens alone for 14 days, then put rooster of choice with hen. I like a 4 x 4 or 8 x 4 hoop pens for breeding/setting/brooding. If your rooster is gentle you can move him pen to pen through the day to mate with up to four seperate hens per day. Once roo figures out what you are doing he can be quite cooperative. A hen served every third day would be fertile. So, you could in theory have twelve breeding pens set up if you were wanting to know for certain parenage of an egg.
Donna in Dandridge, Tennessee

Birdie2019 · Jun 4, 2021

K813ZRA said:
what I want to know is if I could up breed hatchery stock to have passable meat and egg qualities. Because a lot of people on here say the meat qualities of hatchery birds can be a little lacking.

I haven't commited to anything yet as I am still looking for a deal somewhere in the middle. Also, I am still asking questions like the one posed in this thread before I do make up my mind because I want to take the right route from the beginning.

I do have a good layer that is dual purpose for you, but I found this thread on google looking up breeds in SOP. Anyway, what did you end up doing?
Did you go along with your plan? The breed is heritage Delawares. Roots, Rocks & Feathers off of YouTube chats about them and I recommend taking a look (less than 5 mins of info, not too time consuming even if you don’t care for the breed/have plans already).

She starts talking about them around 1:45, then once she is done, skip to around 19:35 to see her pics of them if you want.

JoeP said:
I hope there is more input to this idea. It answered some questions I had. Does anyone have photos that show the differences in the quality of birds through different generations starting with hatchery? Im very interested to see how good the birds can be by year 3 or 4 if the right selection is made through culling. I think a lot of people would be interested in making their hatchery stock better.

Idk if anyone answered this for you (haven’t read the whole thread), but there is another thread that’s really interesting and shows progress. This person (Cochinbantam2005 or something like that) starts with what looks like crosses of different breeds (Cochin Bantam x Orpington or Wyandotte or something) and has extremely poor type. I skipped ahead to the updates and what I saw was amazing. He took poorly typed birds (like that of hatchery quality birds) and developed them into beautiful colored AND typed BQ or SQ birds. Here is the link to that thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/self-blue-cochin-bantams.222829/

here are some pics from google or
Cochinsint website (don’t remember where I got em):

Breeding hatchery stock to SOP, is it worth it?

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