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Self-Blue Cochin Bantams

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by cochinman2005, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. cochinman2005

    cochinman2005 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Self-Blue Cochins are next to impossible to find especially of any quality here in the U.S., and it is a color that myself and a couple fellow breeders have been admiring from afar (across the pond) for a couple years. As luck would have it, we stumbled acrossed a pair of "Gray" Cochin bantams last spring at a local swap meet. We immediately identified them as Self-Blue but they were pretty far removed from being a Cochin. More like single combed Wyandottes with feathered legs. However, this was a chance to at least get the Self-Blue genes needed to work on a line of Self-Blue Cochins. So after a bit of bartering, home we came with these birds. The following photos show that they were a bit of a stretch to be called a Cochin.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    As you can see the color was pretty good. So I bred the male to a couple different Black Cochin hens, and used 3 different Black males with the SB female (separated by time so that I knew I had 3 different matings). The following is a couple photos of the f1 SB Split to Black offspring.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Type is much improved and these are probably the best two out of the ones I raised. I considered myself quite lucky to have gotten a male that good in the f1 generation. The majority of the birds had black legs and white bottomed feet, however as in the case of the two birds in the photos I did get some with yellow pigment. I chose the two best f1 males and the 4 best f1 females and bred them back to each other this spring. Statistically you should get 25% Self-Blue from this match up, but I did little bit better than that. I hatched 23 birds and 11 were Self-Blue. One died and I am growing out the 10 remaining f2's. They are a bit dark in the hackle, and the feather quality is still in question, but progress is being made. The best of these will be bred back to Blacks and perhaps in the f4 generation they will be much improved in type. The f3 chicks will all be black once again, and those will be bred back to one another resulting in Self-Blues again in the f4 offspring. Or at least that's the plan.
    Some pics of the f2 birds. They are around 4 months old. I have some with yellow pigmented feet and some with blue. Goal being to have yellow feet, but focusing on type at this point. You'll also note that the earlobe color is way off. This comes from the original pair, and will be bred out over time.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Examples of differences in foot color.
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The original pair have been together since I stopped using them for breeding, and the hen lays like a Leghorn, so I let her keep her eggs. She didn't have much of an interest in setting so after her laying a bunch of eggs and them getting kicked around and then me throwing them away repeatedly, she finally gave in and started setting on 5 eggs, hatching 3. I won't use them for anything, but I like the color, plus I was curious to see if these would result in anything better than the parents. I thought I'd post a pic of her with the chicks. The third chick is underneath her. You can see that she carries good even color.
    [​IMG]

    With luck and some patience we might see something closer to the standard in the f4 birds. Time will tell but I thought there might be some interest in seeing the progress so far.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
    2 people like this.
  2. Bear88

    Bear88 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    wow they are so beautiful!!!!

    i like the light colours
     
  3. danielle82

    danielle82 A Good Egg

    Apr 27, 2009
    Tonasket Wa
    very cool project!
    I love the pics!
    Its actually pretty inspiring seeing your thread on this!
     
  4. Bear88

    Bear88 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jul 21, 2009
    Gold Coast
    i would love to breed

    just need that land
     
  5. MidnightChickenLover

    MidnightChickenLover Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jul 13, 2009
    I have seen many hatcheries that have pure-bred Self Blue cochins/cochin bantams. I'm not sure on the quality though.... but some have their own pictures and the coloring is fen-om-on-al! I don't exactly know what you look for in a Cochin, but they seemed to compared well to winners at fairs.

    Wouldn't breeding anything but a cochin to a cochin make it a cross? So technically the offspring of the future would never be true blood? I guess it doesn't work that way for showing. I can show 2/3 crosses for dairy, even if it is a dairy/meat cross for goats.
     
  6. blackclownfish16

    blackclownfish16 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Awesome progress cochinman2005! I love seeing lavender on new breeds.

    Wouldn't breeding anything but a cochin to a cochin make it a cross? So technically the offspring of the future would never be true blood? I guess it doesn't work that way for showing. I can show 2/3 crosses for dairy, even if it is a dairy/meat cross for goats.

    Technically yes but no breed of chicken is pure aka not crossed with some other breed at some time.

    Also its often the only way to introduce new colors.

    Chickens reproduce so quickly that it is relatively easy to get back type and breed qualities compared to larger animals with slower reproductive rates. [​IMG]
     
  7. wilds of pa

    wilds of pa Chillin' With My Peeps

    blackclownfish16 Very well said..agree 100% with that answer

    ~Wilds~
     
  8. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Chillin' With My Peeps

    To elaborate on Blackclownfish's post. Every breed of chicken is descended, either by design or chance, from other breeds of chicken.
    If a chicken conforms to type, breeds true to type, & has the general attributes of that breed, then it can be considered to be that breed.
     
  9. Rootball

    Rootball Chillin' With My Peeps

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    May 17, 2009
    Western Colorado
    So just to add to what everyone is saying .... Anyway that you arrive at a standard equals that breed. If you could breed a blue cochin and a dark cornish together and get something that looked exactly like a blr wyandotte(you cant but if you could) it would be a blr wyandotte even if it was newly made from other breeds.

    AND.

    If you only had BLR wyandottes to work with, given enough time you could recreate all other breeds, Of course some would come more quickly, you might hit Buff brahma after 50 years but it might take 500 years to get an exchequer leghorn. Just to add, you would have to wait for a few mutations to occur, but these mutations do seem to happen over and over again in similar ways.
     
  10. Tuffoldhen

    Tuffoldhen Flock Mistress

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    I love Lavender projects! Good job! [​IMG]
     

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