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post #341 of 4323

I was reading Matthew 23 this morning (only led me to more questions)

 

welcome to  @ECSandCCFS

 

there are three characters in the "Prodigal son" , which one would be the most likely to be the crucifier of Jesus?

Favorite Books: More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell, Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis, Cries of the Heart by Ravi Zacharias, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek

 

Frank Turek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoqzcDrILJ0

Brigitte Gabriel: Radical Islam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFO1AtjoUoo&app=desktop

 

flock: Black Australorp, guineas,...

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Favorite Books: More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell, Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis, Cries of the Heart by Ravi Zacharias, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek

 

Frank Turek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoqzcDrILJ0

Brigitte Gabriel: Radical Islam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFO1AtjoUoo&app=desktop

 

flock: Black Australorp, guineas,...

Reply
post #342 of 4323
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy gardener View Post

An other thought re: baptism:  If we look at Jesus on the cross.  One of the men also hanging there mocked Him.  But, the other recognized Him for who He was.   He repented, and Jesus told him that he would walk with Jesus in paradise.  Did that man come down off his cross to be baptized?  Also, as He was dying, Jesus stated:  "It is finished."  He completed the work of redemption at that moment.  He did not say, "It is finished, and oh by the way, you have to get baptized in order to claim the prize."  If baptism becomes a requisite for salvation, it minimizes the completed work of Christ.  It places burden on us to complete an act to "make us worthy" of salvation.

 Baptism is an act of obedience for the new believer.  In essence, it is an outward symbol of the death and burial of the old life, and a resurrection to the new life in Christ.  It is also a public demonstration of the decision to follow and be obedient to Christ.  

I just wanted to add, that Jesus said this to the theif under the old covenant, as Jesus was still alive, so the new covenant had not yet been established.

Luke 23:42
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[d]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”


First, old covenant law didn't recognize baptism as essential, as mentioned, since Jesus' death hadn't occurred yet when he made this promise, so baptism would not have been needed.

Second, "paradise" is not heaven. It's translated from the word "tartarus" which simply means "a resting place". So, essentially, he was going to die and go to a " resting place" with Jesus. Not be judged for heaven OR hell. Resting. (Sleep of death)

Third, Jesus didn't go to heaven the first day. He went to a resting place, and then straight to hell. He didn't reach heaven until days later. So if he took the theif anywhere, it was to a resting place, or hell. Those were the only options on the day Jesus died.

John 20:17

17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”


4th there was no place in heaven yet.

John 14:2

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.




*Oh, no judgement yet, means the theif is still waiting there in paradise until Jesus comes to judge the dead wink.png


And.... I lost my train of thought tongue.png

I'll be back when I find it big_smile.png
Edited by shortgrass - 12/19/16 at 7:35am
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my...
Reply
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my...
Reply
post #343 of 4323
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocap View Post
 

I was reading Matthew 23 this morning (only led me to more questions)

 

welcome to  @ECSandCCFS

 

there are three characters in the "Prodigal son" , which one would be the most likely to be the crucifier of Jesus?

I believe it would have been the "obedient" brother.  Now, question back at ya:  Who is this story really about?  And how does it pertain to the issue of salvation and obedience?  And, who does the father represent in the story?  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortgrass View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy gardener View Post

An other thought re: baptism:  If we look at Jesus on the cross.  One of the men also hanging there mocked Him.  But, the other recognized Him for who He was.   He repented, and Jesus told him that he would walk with Jesus in paradise.  Did that man come down off his cross to be baptized?  Also, as He was dying, Jesus stated:  "It is finished."  He completed the work of redemption at that moment.  He did not say, "It is finished, and oh by the way, you have to get baptized in order to claim the prize."  If baptism becomes a requisite for salvation, it minimizes the completed work of Christ.  It places burden on us to complete an act to "make us worthy" of salvation.

 Baptism is an act of obedience for the new believer.  In essence, it is an outward symbol of the death and burial of the old life, and a resurrection to the new life in Christ.  It is also a public demonstration of the decision to follow and be obedient to Christ.  

I just wanted to add, that Jesus said this to the theif under the old covenant, as Jesus was still alive, so the new covenant had not yet been established.

Luke 23:42
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[d]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”


First, old covenant law didn't recognize baptism as essential, as mentioned, since Jesus' death hadn't occurred yet when he made this promise, so baptism would not have been needed.

Second, "paradise" is not heaven. It's translated from the word "tartarus" which simply means "a resting place". So, essentially, he was going to die and go to a " resting place" with Jesus. Not be judged for heaven OR hell. Resting. (Sleep of death)

Third, Jesus didn't go to heaven the first day. He went to a resting place, and then straight to hell. He didn't reach heaven until days later. So if he took the theif anywhere, it was to a resting place, or hell. Those were the only options on the day Jesus died.

John 20:17

17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”


4th there was no place in heaven yet.

John 14:2

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.




*Oh, no judgement yet, means the theif is still waiting there in paradise until Jesus comes to judge the dead wink.png


And.... I lost my train of thought tongue.png

I'll be back when I find it big_smile.png

I went to this study guide.  I do so with trepidation, not knowing how closely these teachers are aligned with scripture.  It's so very easy for scripture to be twisted, but in reading through it, I did not see any red or yellow flags.  I found the last few paragraphs to be pertinent to this discussion re: the thief on the cross, and paradise, and the time line of WHEN he would enter paradise to walk with Jesus.  

http://www.truthaboutdeath.com/q-and-a/id/1608/didnt-jesus-tell-the-thief-on-the-cross-that-they-would-be-in-heaven-that-day


Edited by lazy gardener - 12/19/16 at 7:45am

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1013154/byc-member-interview-lazy-gardener

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

Reply

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1013154/byc-member-interview-lazy-gardener

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

Reply
post #344 of 4323
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy gardener View Post

I believe it would have been the "obedient" brother.  Now, question back at ya:  Who is this story really about?  And how does it pertain to the issue of salvation and obedience?  And, who does the father represent in the story?  

I went to this study guide.  I do so with trepidation, not knowing how closely these teachers are aligned with scripture.  It's so very easy for scripture to be twisted, but in reading through it, I did not see any red or yellow flags.  I found the last few paragraphs to be pertinent to this discussion re: the thief on the cross, and paradise, and the time line of WHEN he would enter paradise to walk with Jesus.  
http://www.truthaboutdeath.com/q-and-a/id/1608/didnt-jesus-tell-the-thief-on-the-cross-that-they-would-be-in-heaven-that-day

LOL I ended up on that one too, somehow wink.png

I thought it interesting the misplacement of the comma. Ugh that's why I so dislike all these different translations. tongue.png

Seriously been thinking about studying Greek so I can just read the original wink.png
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my...
Reply
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my...
Reply
post #345 of 4323
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocap View Post

I was reading Matthew 23 this morning (only led me to more questions)

welcome to  @ECSandCCFS


there are three characters in the "Prodigal son" , which one would be the most likely to be the crucifier of Jesus?

I agree with LG, probably the "good one".
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my...
Reply
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my...
Reply
post #346 of 4323

When I run into a difficult passage, I simply go to my pastor, or my son!  Both have good grasp of getting back to the original language.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortgrass View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy gardener View Post

I believe it would have been the "obedient" brother.  Now, question back at ya:  Who is this story really about?  And how does it pertain to the issue of salvation and obedience?  And, who does the father represent in the story?  

I went to this study guide.  I do so with trepidation, not knowing how closely these teachers are aligned with scripture.  It's so very easy for scripture to be twisted, but in reading through it, I did not see any red or yellow flags.  I found the last few paragraphs to be pertinent to this discussion re: the thief on the cross, and paradise, and the time line of WHEN he would enter paradise to walk with Jesus.  
http://www.truthaboutdeath.com/q-and-a/id/1608/didnt-jesus-tell-the-thief-on-the-cross-that-they-would-be-in-heaven-that-day

LOL I ended up on that one too, somehow wink.png

I thought it interesting the misplacement of the comma. Ugh that's why I so dislike all these different translations. tongue.png

Seriously been thinking about studying Greek so I can just read the original wink.png

I believe without a shadow of a doubt that all scripture is God breathed, and is without error.  But, this is a little example of how easy it is to misinterpret/take out of context when you don't have a grasp of the big picture, and compare one scripture to an other.  If you run across one verse that seems to be out of alignment with other teachings in the scripture, it's important to take that second and third look, and examine it in context, and in the original language, because, if you do so, you'll find that there are no contradictions or errors.

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1013154/byc-member-interview-lazy-gardener

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

Reply

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1013154/byc-member-interview-lazy-gardener

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/yes-you-certainly-can-brood-chicks-outdoors

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

Reply
post #347 of 4323
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazy gardener View Post

When I run into a difficult passage, I simply go to my pastor, or my son!  Both have good grasp of getting back to the original language.  
I believe without a shadow of a doubt that all scripture is God breathed, and is without error.  But, this is a little example of how easy it is to misinterpret/take out of context when you don't have a grasp of the big picture, and compare one scripture to an other.  If you run across one verse that seems to be out of alignment with other teachings in the scripture, it's important to take that second and third look, and examine it in context, and in the original language, because, if you do so, you'll find that there are no contradictions or errors.

Absolutely! And you never know when you'll stumble upon an extra tidbit of info between the 4 gospels, like how Luke is a wee bit more specific, and confusing when its not quite lined up...Those small details can be life altering wink.png
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my...
Reply
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my...
Reply
post #348 of 4323
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocap View Post
 

I was reading Matthew 23 this morning (only led me to more questions)

 

welcome to  @ECSandCCFS

 

there are three characters in the "Prodigal son" , which one would be the most likely to be the crucifier of Jesus?

Do you mean the person who actually crucified Jesus? Or is my brain being too... grammar nazi :rolleyes:

I love three things:                               

1. Jesus, my Lord and Saviour

2. My chickens (notably Peep)

And 3. Star wars (!!)

 

"People who count their chickens before they act very wisely, because

chickens run about so absurdly that it is impossible to count them acturatly!"

 

A really fun website:

http://patorjk.com/software/taag/#p=testall&h=1&v=2&c=bash&f=Crawford2...

Reply

I love three things:                               

1. Jesus, my Lord and Saviour

2. My chickens (notably Peep)

And 3. Star wars (!!)

 

"People who count their chickens before they act very wisely, because

chickens run about so absurdly that it is impossible to count them acturatly!"

 

A really fun website:

http://patorjk.com/software/taag/#p=testall&h=1&v=2&c=bash&f=Crawford2...

Reply
post #349 of 4323
So much to read
Wealth is a nightmare. With each coveted thing we buy, we lose a thing we dream about.
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Wealth is a nightmare. With each coveted thing we buy, we lose a thing we dream about.
Reply
post #350 of 4323
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeepersMama View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocap View Post
 

I was reading Matthew 23 this morning (only led me to more questions)

 

welcome to  @ECSandCCFS

 

there are three characters in the "Prodigal son" , which one would be the most likely to be the crucifier of Jesus?

Do you mean the person who actually crucified Jesus? Or is my brain being too... grammar nazi :rolleyes:


the one in the courtyard that yelled "crucify Him" or the Chief Priest, not P. Pilot.

 

which one am I? is the bigger question, would I have yelled "crucify Him"?

Favorite Books: More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell, Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis, Cries of the Heart by Ravi Zacharias, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek

 

Frank Turek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoqzcDrILJ0

Brigitte Gabriel: Radical Islam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFO1AtjoUoo&app=desktop

 

flock: Black Australorp, guineas,...

Reply

Favorite Books: More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell, Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis, Cries of the Heart by Ravi Zacharias, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek

 

Frank Turek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoqzcDrILJ0

Brigitte Gabriel: Radical Islam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFO1AtjoUoo&app=desktop

 

flock: Black Australorp, guineas,...

Reply
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