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Chick with cross beak *pics* - Page 7

post #61 of 105

I'm glad to see this topic has been so well covered here.  I have an 11 day old blue ameraucana chick that has just started developing the problem.  Yesterday was the first time I noticed it and it is slightly worse today.  I hatched these guys myself from eBay eggs that were shipped to me.  I've been getting alot of advice to just euthanize now and safe myself (and the chick) alot time & stress.  But, what I've read here gives me hope that maybe I can work with this.  So, I guess I'll try to find some Penetran, cell salts and Bioplasma.  When I put pressure on the lower beak, it goes easily back into place (I DID consider some sort of banding for short periods of time) and I can see that if the tip of the upper beak were trimmed back, the lower one should be able to return to a normal position.  bow  I am hopeful! 
http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/70110_img_2156.jpg

Michelle 3 buff orps, 1 pair of bantam buff brahmas, 2 gold-laced wyandottes, a trio of blue & black ameraucanas, a trio of dominiques, 1 pair of bantam mottled black cochins, 8 spotted australian ducks, 2 macaws, 1 umbrella cockatoo, and an ever-changing array of stray cats. 
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Michelle 3 buff orps, 1 pair of bantam buff brahmas, 2 gold-laced wyandottes, a trio of blue & black ameraucanas, a trio of dominiques, 1 pair of bantam mottled black cochins, 8 spotted australian ducks, 2 macaws, 1 umbrella cockatoo, and an ever-changing array of stray cats. 
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post #62 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by paeskie 

Would any of the previous posters be willing to update this thread?
Have your birds survived?
Did anyone have a success story for actually repairing this deformity:
Penetran
Cell Salts
Bio Plasma
Trimming

Please share your advice for those of us with a new generation of crossbeak chicks sad


I was wondering the same thing.  An update on how well these remedies worked would be great.  I have a 12 day old that began showing signs of cross beak 3 days ago.  Today it is fairly noticeable.  hit

Michelle 3 buff orps, 1 pair of bantam buff brahmas, 2 gold-laced wyandottes, a trio of blue & black ameraucanas, a trio of dominiques, 1 pair of bantam mottled black cochins, 8 spotted australian ducks, 2 macaws, 1 umbrella cockatoo, and an ever-changing array of stray cats. 
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Michelle 3 buff orps, 1 pair of bantam buff brahmas, 2 gold-laced wyandottes, a trio of blue & black ameraucanas, a trio of dominiques, 1 pair of bantam mottled black cochins, 8 spotted australian ducks, 2 macaws, 1 umbrella cockatoo, and an ever-changing array of stray cats. 
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post #63 of 105

http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/83433_img_5440.jpg
Here is my EE at seven and a half weeks old. She is holding her own with no special treatment or concessions. I hope it doesn't get worse, but I don't think it is going to just go away either. I suppose I will have to trim her beak at some time, but maybe that is all she will need. The cross-beak first appeared at about two weeks old, but it hasn't been getting steadily worse. It just is as you see it.

post #64 of 105

I have 5 chicks hatched from eggs from a very well-known Silkie breeder that are now 3 weeks old and, of course, my favorite has a slightly crossed beak at the tip.

I am going to trim it (in the morning when I have an extra pair of hands), add the Bioplasma Cell Salts, and offer 2 supplemental hand-feedings per day (we use Pretty Bird for our Hyacinth Macaws).

Whatever the sex (although I am hoping for a sweet, cuddly, docile rooster), it was/is my intent to keep this one as a diapered house-pet, and we have other "special needs" animals here, so life-long supplemental hand-feedings are not a burden on us as long as the animal is not in unmanageable discomfort or otherwise *suffering.*  We also have a petting zoo, and Mobile Teaching Zoo, so this may be a long-term *educational* opportunity for our little one...

I would post photos, but being a newbie to the forum, I am not allowed >.<

BTW, this little one is what caused me to find this forum in the first place and I ADORE it!

Kelliee Caron, www.Chasing-Tail.com
Zoological Wildlife Conservation Center
Petting Zoo & Mobile Teaching Zoo

Kelliee, www.Chasing-Tail.com
Zoological Wildlife Conservation Center
Petting Zoo & Mobile Teaching Zoo
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Kelliee, www.Chasing-Tail.com
Zoological Wildlife Conservation Center
Petting Zoo & Mobile Teaching Zoo
Reply
post #65 of 105

I have a few cross beaked chickens and they live with the flock just fine. I wouldn't call it special needs until it cant eat. If its eating it doesnt need special feedings. I hand feed parrots too...but I've found that chickens dont always do so well with hand feeding....if a chick is not put together right, you can try to save it but often it will die anyway.
There are so many roosters in the world that need homes in a zoo such as yours, so dont despair if you lose this one....
The thing is that many chickens can live full lives in the barnyard with a crossed beak.
If its very extreme, then it may need some supplemental protein food or some soft food, but see how it shakes out first and if its actually able to maintina itself.

I also tried the "cures" you mentioned and found that they didnt work.
Be very careful trimming because there are blood vessels in the beak. You can only trim a tiny bit at a time...or a tip that is really sticking out...make sure you have styptic anyway. Beak trimming often end in a bloody mess unless you take a tiny amount and wait a few days and take a tiny amount more.
One thing you can do is try some polyvisol without iron in the water just to be sure that there isnt a vitamin deficiency. make sure you are feeing medicated chick starter also.
good luck

Southern CT/Westchester Backyard Poultry Meetup!
http://www.meetup.com/Chickens1/
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Southern CT/Westchester Backyard Poultry Meetup!
http://www.meetup.com/Chickens1/
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post #66 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlward 

I'm glad to see this topic has been so well covered here.  I have an 11 day old blue ameraucana chick that has just started developing the problem.  Yesterday was the first time I noticed it and it is slightly worse today.  I hatched these guys myself from eBay eggs that were shipped to me.  I've been getting alot of advice to just euthanize now and safe myself (and the chick) alot time & stress.  But, what I've read here gives me hope that maybe I can work with this.  So, I guess I'll try to find some Penetran, cell salts and Bioplasma.  When I put pressure on the lower beak, it goes easily back into place (I DID consider some sort of banding for short periods of time) and I can see that if the tip of the upper beak were trimmed back, the lower one should be able to return to a normal position.  bow  I am hopeful! 
http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/70110_img_2156.jpg


So, this was my sweet Bella (although it turned out to be a roo, we continued to call him Bella) at 11 days.  As you can see from the updated pic, his beak continued to move until it was pretty much 90 degrees.  I tried all the recommended things from the folks on the site (thank you everyone for the info).  By 3 weeks, I was supplementing his nutrition with parrot handfeeding food.  Mixed with Sav-a-chick,  cell salts and pediatric vitamin drops added.  I finally was able to find some Penetrol on line and, while I can't be certain whether it helped, he enjoyed having it massaged in on either side of his jaw.  It had a warming effect.  He also allowed me to use our Pedipaw nail trimmer on his beak, so I was able to keep it trimmed enough for him to eat.  The other chickens didn't bother him and he slept in the coop, but stayed on the floor with the juveniles.  He was fairly vocal at bedtime and the young dominiques and ameraucanas would cuddle around him and keep him warm.  He would follow me every where while I worked, in & out of the house, into the garden.  And boy, when he saw I had that dish with the syringe and his dish towel for swaddling him, he would come running like crazy to jump into my lap!  He learned to sort of shovel his food with his lower beak, but he could only manage that if he was right in a large container where he wouldn't hit the bottom.  So everyday he was allowed to get right into the feed can and then he was able to fill his crop.  He had good days where he didn't need me to supplement and then he had bad days where he just made me sad.  He would work at it and work at it, and he would get feed in his eye and I would have to clean it.  sad  Toward the end, I could tell he was becoming more frail and having a more difficult time and I knew he wouldn't be able to endure the winter cold.  That we would have to put him down.  But then, at 4 1/2 months old he passed away in his sleep.  I still miss the little guy!
So, long story short, I don't believe any of the things I tried as far as cell salts and such made a difference.   He lived as long as he did because I made sure he was getting good nutrition and kept his beak trimmed.  Beyond that...  hu
http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/70110_img_2909.jpg

Michelle 3 buff orps, 1 pair of bantam buff brahmas, 2 gold-laced wyandottes, a trio of blue & black ameraucanas, a trio of dominiques, 1 pair of bantam mottled black cochins, 8 spotted australian ducks, 2 macaws, 1 umbrella cockatoo, and an ever-changing array of stray cats. 
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Michelle 3 buff orps, 1 pair of bantam buff brahmas, 2 gold-laced wyandottes, a trio of blue & black ameraucanas, a trio of dominiques, 1 pair of bantam mottled black cochins, 8 spotted australian ducks, 2 macaws, 1 umbrella cockatoo, and an ever-changing array of stray cats. 
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post #67 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocosandy 

I have a few cross beaked chickens and they live with the flock just fine. I wouldn't call it special needs until it cant eat. If its eating it doesnt need special feedings. I hand feed parrots too...but I've found that chickens dont always do so well with hand feeding....if a chick is not put together right, you can try to save it but often it will die anyway.
There are so many roosters in the world that need homes in a zoo such as yours, so dont despair if you lose this one....
The thing is that many chickens can live full lives in the barnyard with a crossed beak.
If its very extreme, then it may need some supplemental protein food or some soft food, but see how it shakes out first and if its actually able to maintina itself.

I also tried the "cures" you mentioned and found that they didnt work.
Be very careful trimming because there are blood vessels in the beak. You can only trim a tiny bit at a time...or a tip that is really sticking out...make sure you have styptic anyway. Beak trimming often end in a bloody mess unless you take a tiny amount and wait a few days and take a tiny amount more.
One thing you can do is try some polyvisol without iron in the water just to be sure that there isnt a vitamin deficiency. make sure you are feeing medicated chick starter also.
good luck


Thanks for the words of wisdom.

I have vitamins on hand and started those.

Used the rotary nail file and sanded off ever so little from the upper beak this morning - no blood.  As I was filing I realized that this is not a musculature problem pulling the beak to the side, but the left side of the upper beak is actually longer than the right, causing a curvature in the beak itself which will require elongation of the right side to straighten the curvature.  At this point, it is a very slight misalignment.

At this point it is eating well and it's keel bone is no more pronounced and breast no more deflated than it's chick-mates.  I will hold off on supplemental feedings at this point.

Kelliee, www.Chasing-Tail.com
Zoological Wildlife Conservation Center
Petting Zoo & Mobile Teaching Zoo
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Kelliee, www.Chasing-Tail.com
Zoological Wildlife Conservation Center
Petting Zoo & Mobile Teaching Zoo
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post #68 of 105

I'm sure there is probably more than one kind of cross beak deformity, some may be muscular in nature and in such cases cell salts etc may help.  But with my own cross beak I noticed that it wasn't just her beak, but rather her entire skull that was "off."

http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/52978_72710buffyxbeak2.jpg
This was Buffy when we first noticed the cross beak, at about 4 or 5 days old.
http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/52978_72710buffyxbeak.jpg
I think this picture was taken the same day, although it may have been a week or two later.

http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/52978_buffydec52010.jpg
And this was taken at about 5 months old.  You can see that it's not just her beak, even her comb has a curvature to it.

She did live to lay eggs and was a good layer in spite of the difficulty she had getting food into herself.  This summer through the fall though she just kept dropping weight, so even though she was still laying almost daily she was not thriving.  She always seemed frantic when we refilled the feeders, and it seemed to me like more than just the normal "OMG, there's something NEW here" frantics that the rest of the flock gets when we bring food or treats out to them.  We decided to cull her this fall rather than putting her though a winter where she would have surely suffered.

post #69 of 105

As Aina says above, if its that bad, you will know....its not comfortable for them and its actually more of the entire jaw and part of the skull. Its progressive and will continue to get worse till the bird is full grown. Thats usually the time when you can judge it, but if they cant eat as chicks then its pretty much impossible.

I tried all of those things like massage and salts, but ultimately, some of these birds are not meant to live...they might pass this gene on in the flock if you make a mistake with hatching eggs....
There are coms cross beaks coming out of some "well known breeders" and also McMurray. Its a genetic thing, I think, and its more a malformation of the bones that cant really be corrected.
I have a silkie with a significant cross but she eats fine and does fine. Its not nearly as bad as pictured above. I have had some chicks born this way (and usually silkies) and they ultimately died.
I dont go crazy trying to fix deformed chicks anymore because there are so many chickens that need homes, especially roosters, that it seems crazy to focus on one that needs alot of extra care and that might weaken the flock if it makes it.
Cross beak is definitely not a trait that you want in your flock, even if its your favorite chicken in the world.
Its also very uncomfortable for the chicken if it cant eat and cant forage like a regular chicken.
I believe that chickens are happiest being chickens...I know this from watching my big flock.
Im not saying that I dont try to save them if its feasible. Ive just learned that sometimes I do more harm by interfering with nature taking its course.

Good luck with your baby....at least in a petting zoo environment he may make it...but if you ever need an extra roo, Id be happy to ship you any number of adorable oe bantams or beautiful plumed mutts... or....I have a darling turken roo that is going to someone who may put him in  freezer camp. I will pay shipping if you want a couple of them!!;-)

Southern CT/Westchester Backyard Poultry Meetup!
http://www.meetup.com/Chickens1/
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Southern CT/Westchester Backyard Poultry Meetup!
http://www.meetup.com/Chickens1/
Reply
post #70 of 105

I have a cross beak pullet that is a few months old now, very severe crossbeak.  We tried trimming it once.  I don't know exactly what DH did, but it started bleeding like crazy.  DH ended up having to cauterize it.  It was very traumatic for the pullet AND me.  She screamed during the cauterization and I screamed louder.  I simply can't handle causing an animal pain.

After that experience we decided to let nature take its course.  We feed her in deep dog dishes that I never let get low.  She wastes alot of feed, but I don't mind. 

She's part silkie and I have no intention of breeding her; I'm just hoping she'll be a broody hen. 

She's here, I love her, she's not suffering in any way that I can tell.  She's not as large as her hatchmate (a cockerel), but she's about average size, judging by the silkies I've had before.  I see no reason to cull her. 

I wish you luck with yours  smile

If there ever comes a day when we can't be together keep me in your heart, I'll stay there forever - Winnie the Pooh
I'll never develop a thick skin.  Thick skin leads to a hard heart and I never want to be one of those people.
A slave to LF brahmas, seramas, cochins, sebrights, and call ducks.  R.I.P. Dragon, the crossbeak.  Thank you for teaching me so much about life.

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If there ever comes a day when we can't be together keep me in your heart, I'll stay there forever - Winnie the Pooh
I'll never develop a thick skin.  Thick skin leads to a hard heart and I never want to be one of those people.
A slave to LF brahmas, seramas, cochins, sebrights, and call ducks.  R.I.P. Dragon, the crossbeak.  Thank you for teaching me so much about life.

Reply
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