Breeding for Sizzles

Guys,

A while back I bought some Sizzle eggs from two different people and I hatched a bunch of chicks. These birds are all about 2 ½ month old now and I’m just starting to determine the sex of some of them (three of the males have started to crow). At the same time that these eggs had hatched I also hatched a handful of different color Silkies. So now I have a handful of birds that look like….

A Silkie with frizzled regular feathers
A Silkie with regular feathers
A Silkie and
A Cochin with smooth feathers

I guess my gold is to pick some of these birds to breed in order to get more Sizzles or better yet birds that look like Silkies with frizzled regular feathers. Look at the pics below to see what I’m talking about in case I’m not explaining it correctly.

My problem is, the more I read about this the more confused I get.

I have read that you get the best results from a Frizzled Cochin and a Silkie. That you shouldn’t breed a Sizzle to a Sizzle. That Frizzled anything to Frizzled anything is a big no no. That Frizzled to Frizzled will give you anything from really tight curled feathers to brittle feathers breaking and falling off. That you get the best results with first generation birds and that sec generation birds are a crap shoot. And so on and so on.

My thought was to keep all the hens that have all the desired traits that I like. Then, pick either a smooth coat male Sizzle or a male Silkie that I like and get rid of everything else. Unless of course I wanted to have two Sizzle pens then I would also keep a Sizzle roo that had all the desired traits that I like (the frizzled feathers skin color and feet) and put him with both Silkie hens and smooth coat Sizzle hens.

So my question is….is this thinking above correct or should I just stick with Frizzled Cochin’s over Silkies to get what I am looking for?

These are some of my Sizzles that I like and what I’m aiming to get from any breeding I try.






Thanks in advance for any help with this,
Chris

At this point keep cochins out of the mix--you will be breeding back in traits that you want removed.

You can use smooth feathered bird who have all the right features to breed to, or silkies, realizing that you will get some silkie feathered birds. Looks like you are doing really well on type, so you may not need to use silkies. Although I would choose a good silkie over the black smooth feathered bird in the first photo.

frizzle X frizzle will give 50% of birds with one copy of frizzle. 25% will not have frizzling and 25% will have two copies (curly) Curly to smooth will give 100% frizzle. Frizzle to smooth will give 50% frizzle and 50% smooth.

Some people use curlies to great advantage. They are not always a liability, but they do require extra care.

Sonoran Silkies said:

At this point keep cochins out of the mix--you will be breeding back in traits that you want removed.

You can use smooth feathered bird who have all the right features to breed to, or silkies, realizing that you will get some silkie feathered birds. Looks like you are doing really well on type, so you may not need to use silkies. Although I would choose a good silkie over the black smooth feathered bird in the first photo.

frizzle X frizzle will give 50% of birds with one copy of frizzle. 25% will not have frizzling and 25% will have two copies (curly) Curly to smooth will give 100% frizzle. Frizzle to smooth will give 50% frizzle and 50% smooth.

Some people use curlies to great advantage. They are not always a liability, but they do require extra care.

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Sonoran Silkies said:

At this point keep cochins out of the mix--you will be breeding back in traits that you want removed.

You can use smooth feathered bird who have all the right features to breed to, or silkies, realizing that you will get some silkie feathered birds. Looks like you are doing really well on type, so you may not need to use silkies. Although I would choose a good silkie over the black smooth feathered bird in the first photo.

frizzle X frizzle will give 50% of birds with one copy of frizzle. 25% will not have frizzling and 25% will have two copies (curly) Curly to smooth will give 100% frizzle. Frizzle to smooth will give 50% frizzle and 50% smooth.

Some people use curlies to great advantage. They are not always a liability, but they do require extra care.

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Thanks you for that information. The two birds in the last pic are my favorites. I then have a nice solid black one (not the one in the pic) and a cream colored bird that are both Frizzled. The rest either look like Silkies or they look like smooth coat Cochin's. I'll probably be looking to re-home all of those birds and pick one of my male Silkies to cover my Frizzled hens with unless one of the Frizzled birds turns out to be a roo or one of the Sizzles that looks like a Silkie starts to look better than they do now.

These are not great pics and they are about a month old but these are the other two that I like...





Anyway, one more question if you don't mind.....

Say I was to breed a Frizzle x Frizzle and out of that clutch I kept a Curly for breeding. What does a Frizzle x Curly give me? 50% Frizzle and 50% Curly.
Also you say that the Curly will need extra care. Can you elaborate on that a little.

Thanks for all your help,
Chris

make sure to breed frizzled to smooth frizzeled for the correct frizzling. if you breed a frizzle to a frizzle then you will get brittle feathers

frizzle x smooth frizzle is the breeding you want to do with the frizzling gene involved i think theres a thread about the frizzle gene but im not quite sure
frizzle x frizzle will give you brittle feathers that break off and basically give you a bald bird at times

walkswithdog said:

Most people breed Frizzle to Smooth. Yielding half and half, in general.

Breeding frizzle to frizzle - yields all Frizzled birds yes, but creates about 1/3 of chicks with a double dose of Frizzle genes - a curly or Frazzle, those chicks DO NOT do well and usually must be culled. Lots of people don't like that idea at all. So they breed smooth to frizzle and avoid the problem.

I breed Sizzles so it's further complicated by silkie genes - lol. I can get Sizzle (the normal curly feather like a frizzle), sizzle (smooth normal feathers), the Frazzles, and silkie feathered birds, and curled silkie feathered birds. Which makes every hatch sort of a scatter gun adventure. I'll be selling off and culling a great many birds this next year.

Frizzles are NIFTY. I love it. I've even let a few Sizzle/Delaware eggs get set. What hatches out is anyone's guess, LOL.

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Frizzle genetics:

f is the wild-type non-frizzle (recessive)
F is the mutated frizzle (dominant)

So an ff bird not frizzled, and Ff and FF birds are frizzled

Except that F frizzle is an incomplete dominant trait, so some birds that are Ff will not look frizzled. There is apparently another gene (or genes) that limit the expression of the frizzle gene.

You should Not breed a frizzle to a frizzle, as this will lead to 25% FF, and these birds have poor quality feathers that are more likely to break, and can also have internal abnormalities such as enlarged hearts and GI tract irregularities. Ff to Ff cross gives 25% non-frizzle ff, 50% frizzle Ff, and 25% frizzle FF ("curly" or "wire" feathered birds)

Breeding a Ff frizzle to a Ff frizzle will give about 50% ff non-frizzles and 50% Ff frizzles (remembering that sometimes an Ff bird will not look frizzled - I know it's complicated).

The silkie gene is not related genetically to frizzle, so that you have to figure out separately.

Are the birds in the original post yours, or just your goal, but other people's birds? If not your birds, I would say to breed yours to silkies who have large crests, dark skin, 5 toes per foot, correct combs and awesome type. Ideally try to pair up colour as well. I get the impression that your birds may not be as far into development as the ones in the original posting, which I had assumed were yours.

Chris Herzog said:

Quote:

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Personally I would not categorically rule out breeding frizzle to frizzle; you breed what fits your needs. Curly birds will need extra oil in their diets, especially, but not exclusively, when growing feathers, to keep feathers softer. If feathers do break, they may need weather protection more than provided to fully plumaged birds, and they may need protection from more aggressive bird who would pick at their feathers. If you have a curly bird, all its offspring will receive the gene, meaning that you can pair them with an unfrizzled bird and all offspring will be frizzled.

Sonoran Silkies said:

Are the birds in the original post yours, or just your goal, but other people's birds? If not your birds, I would say to breed yours to silkies who have large crests, dark skin, 5 toes per foot, correct combs and awesome type. Ideally try to pair up colour as well. I get the impression that your birds may not be as far into development as the ones in the original posting, which I had assumed were yours.

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All the birds on this thread as of this post are pics of my birds. The two pics that you copies in your post are pics that were taken about a month ago. The original post has pics that were taken this past weekend.

This bird in this first pic is the same cream colored bird in the sec pic.



And these two pic are of the same bird....



Thanks all of you for your input. Now I just need to figure out who are the boys and who are the girls so I know who is sticking around and who will need to go.

Chris

post pics in the breed gender section showing their combs and include their age(s)

Chris Herzog said:

All the birds on this thread as of this post are pics of my birds. The two pics that you copies in your post are pics that were taken about a month ago. The original post has pics that were taken this past weekend.

This bird in this first pic is the same cream colored bird in the sec pic.



And these two pic are of the same bird....



Thanks all of you for your input. Now I just need to figure out who are the boys and who are the girls so I know who is sticking around and who will need to go.

Chris

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