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Partridge Marans French Standard New Project

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 

This is a new variety that I will be working with in 2014.

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Description: Golden Partridge Marans. I only know of one other flock in the US that did not come from our flock. This color pattern has been very puzzling. After studying other breeds and feather patterns, the brown gene that we are dealing with is a partridge. Since they came from a recessive gene in our Blacks and Black Coppers, there is a varying number of the Gold gene carried by these birds. The individuals carrying two copies of the gold gene are a beautiful golden partridge. Those carrying none of the gold gene have a much different feather pattern unlike any I have seen. We call those our Brown Haydens. The brown gene in both these varieties breed 100% true. We hope to be adding chicks from the unrelated flock to ours within the next couple of months. We have the color and leg feathering close to what we want, so now we are focusing more attention to the egg color which does need some improvement. Chicks will ship on Monday or Tuesday after auction end. Thanks for looking at our ad.

 

post #2 of 10

Is this variety based on e+ or eb locus?

Do you have a picture of the chick down?

 Thanks,

 Karen


Edited by 3riverschick - 1/23/14 at 8:30pm

Walt Boese Pure English strain Light Sussex

"We are all just walking each other home." unknown

Reply

Walt Boese Pure English strain Light Sussex

"We are all just walking each other home." unknown

Reply
post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 

I have no idea whether or not they are e+ or eb locus. I don't have a photo of them when they were hatched. The photos posted are the parents of the pullets and cockerels that I hatched. They came from a fellow from Kentucky who also developed Brown Hayden Marans which aren't really too different from the Partridge variety. I will post the pics that he sent to me. Here is a link for both varieties:

 

http://www.rarebreedauctions.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=114029

 

http://www.rarebreedauctions.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=115198

post #4 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowman1970 View Post
 

I have no idea whether or not they are e+ or eb locus. I don't have a photo of them when they were hatched. The photos posted are the parents of the pullets and cockerels that I hatched. They came from a fellow from Kentucky who also developed Brown Hayden Marans which aren't really too different from the Partridge variety. I will post the pics that he sent to me. Here is a link for both varieties:

 

http://www.rarebreedauctions.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=114029

 

http://www.rarebreedauctions.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=115198

 They appear to carry the brown allele. That is good, partridge or gold penciling is best when expressed on a brown fowl.

 

Tim




 

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post #5 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadkerson View Post
 

 They appear to carry the brown allele. That is good, partridge or gold penciling is best when expressed on a brown fowl.

 

Tim

Actually, Tim, it's not good, not good at all.  Before the turn to eb partridge, both here and across the pond, the eb locus never existed in the Marans breed. If they had built them on Wheaten, the colors might not have been as good but they would have stayed within breed parameters. We all know that (ignorantly or well-intentioned)  these partridges are going to get bred to e+ Golden Salmon (BBR) and eWh Black Tailed Buff Marans. It will cause many unwanted problems in all three varieties and imperil the valiant effort now being made to select true breeding Golden Salmon Marans. The  eb ,e+,  eWh  crosses  will be difficult for novice breeders to differentiate making even more of a mess of these three varieties. Take a look at this stunning Golden Salmon Marans cock.

http://waterfordsussexandmarans.webs.com/apps/photos/    Pretty, huh?  He is e+/eb. I had a lovely chick pic of him wearing his eb brown helmet before yahoogroups deleted it when they changed their format..

 Long sad sigh,

 Karen


Edited by 3riverschick - 1/25/14 at 5:32pm

Walt Boese Pure English strain Light Sussex

"We are all just walking each other home." unknown

Reply

Walt Boese Pure English strain Light Sussex

"We are all just walking each other home." unknown

Reply
post #6 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowman1970 View Post
 

I have no idea whether or not they are e+ or eb locus. I don't have a photo of them when they were hatched. The photos posted are the parents of the pullets and cockerels that I hatched. They came from a fellow from Kentucky who also developed Brown Hayden Marans which aren't really too different from the Partridge variety. I will post the pics that he sent to me. Here is a link for both varieties:

 

http://www.rarebreedauctions.com/auction_details.php?auction_id=114029

 

 

How very sad. He should have continued to be dismayed by the impurity of his birds.

All the funky colors he talks about as  part of his breeding scheme are nothing more

than  crossings of e+, eb, and possibly eWh birds.   eb does not exist in Marans. So if he

was getting eb out of his Black Coppers, then there was foreign blood in there somewhere.

Golden Salmon were crossed with Welsummer at one time. Very ill advised.

 Best,

 Karen


Edited by 3riverschick - 1/26/14 at 4:05pm

Walt Boese Pure English strain Light Sussex

"We are all just walking each other home." unknown

Reply

Walt Boese Pure English strain Light Sussex

"We are all just walking each other home." unknown

Reply
post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 

Do you still have this bird?

post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowman1970 View Post
 

Do you still have this bird?

Which bird? The one in the photo essay? Alvin? No, I traded him to a farmer several hours

from here for a lesson in how to process a hen. She needed a stud rooster for her flock.

Alvin was happy to oblige. He was no good to me for trying to breed Golden Salmon Marans.

A project I finally abandoned in favor of Light Sussex.

Walt Boese Pure English strain Light Sussex

"We are all just walking each other home." unknown

Reply

Walt Boese Pure English strain Light Sussex

"We are all just walking each other home." unknown

Reply
post #9 of 10
Thread Starter 

What reason did you have for giving up on the Golden/Silver Salmon Marans?


Edited by cowman1970 - 1/26/14 at 3:24pm
post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowman1970 View Post
 

What reason did you have for giving up on the Golden/Silver Salmon Marans?

 Everything I could find in 5 different starts over multiple years was either totally polluted with autosomal red

( at least one parent has to be clear to breed it out), the birds had been crossed with eb ( noted by brown helmet)

or the  source was a rip-off . The trick is to find a pure Golden Salmon hen. The hens tell the tale on purity. I never found one.

The males can hide melanizers genes and crossed locuses because of their BBR coloring.

 People keep thinking that by breeding 2 colors together they can get Golden Salmon. But GS isn't a color

as much as it is a lack of all the other colors.  Breed GS by winnowing out color genes and modifiers until

only s+ is left on the e+ locus.  Anything else corrupts and destroys it. There are no hypostatic genes in Golden Salmon.

( Black-Breasted Red )

 Best,

 Karen


Edited by 3riverschick - 1/26/14 at 4:18pm

Walt Boese Pure English strain Light Sussex

"We are all just walking each other home." unknown

Reply

Walt Boese Pure English strain Light Sussex

"We are all just walking each other home." unknown

Reply
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