Amino Acid Requirements--Adult Hen?

[U_Stormcrow]

My ears were burning..... hehe..... so i thought i would update on my lupin based diy recipe progress here.

My girls are doing great on their lupin based recipe. None of the effects mentioned here have been observed so far. I estimate approximately 50% of their intake is this feed. On average (a flock of 15) they will consume 75 dry grams each per day. I have refined my recipe and method somewhat. I crack micronised (heat treated to reduce toxins) lupins I a woodchipper. Then ferment for 24-72 hrs before feeding. I scoop off the floating bits as the detached lupin skins float, the lupin itself does not.
I have also added some finch feed (a variety of different millets and some linseed mainly) to the mix for an extra source of minerals and nutrients. The feed comes out at 17% protien.
The rest of their diet is 25 grams each (on average) of 28% chick crumble fed as treats then kitchen scraps and excellent free range forage..... large variety of greens (chickweed especially is going crazy atm) and lots of bugs, skinks, toads. The grasshopper explosion will commence in the coming weeks.
They get plenty of meat and dairy scraps to help with any met that may be lacking. Also a couple tins of sardines and some walnuts as treats each week.
Approaching the end of winter.... their condition is excellent. No reduction in egg production according to my records. One (white leghorn over rhode Island white) has even decided to go broody and is 2 weeks into hatching a dozen eggs. Their shell grit consumption has gone up significantly..... which is to be expected.

I'm still trying to source a decent vitamin pre mix. It's proving challenging. As soon as I do they will be on 100% this diet.

I don't save money doing it. But if you don't include the sardines and walnuts it's the same cost as a middle range layer feed.

I grow too much papaya so the chooks regularly get some as scraps. They also love their bananas and mangoes which are grown by me in abundance. I am also in a big pineapple growing area.... so pineapple skins and cores are a regular scraps item which they love. They are getting lots of loquats atm also.

I believe Tyramine is one of the denaturing enzymes/amines. Aged cheese and pineapple are both excellent sources of it. Along with other fermented foods and citrus to a lesser extent. Bromelain is another. I will try to find my source for that. It was years ago.
Interestingly tyramine can often be contraindicated in combination with mono amine oxidase inhibitors (maoi) in humans. Sometimes leading to elevated blood pressure. Somehow the mao is involved in its digestion, once inhibited tyramine can cause problems.

Bromelain is one of the enzymes present in pineapple - helping to explain its traditional presence in many marinades of tough/older meat.

Between de-hulling, heat treatment, and fermentation - have you considered adding to papaya to yoru ferment??? - you are doing quitea lit to reduce lupins' antinutritional factors, intentionally or not.

 

[EddieSalita]

The fermentation, skimming of the skins and the micronised lupins are the only intentional steps I'm taking.
I hadn't considered adding papaya per se. Until I read this thread it never dawned on me the bromelain was useful in that regard. It was a happy coincidence. It's not something that produces fruit week in week out. It's a feast and famine harvest quarterly.
The chooks just maul the papaya when I give it. As if it's red meat. They love the seeds, flesh and skin. If I put out 3 large ones at once, they will all be gone by midday. Idk where they put it. I'd say hollow legs..... but they only chicken legs
Now I know I will be metering it out differently. Freezing excess and adding an amount to their food if not daily then at least a few times a week. Just for convenience.
Ì may be concerned about alcoholic fermentation being fruit. I will trial it. See if it wants to go alcoholic on its own. But just adding it frozen pulped to the already fermented feed will do initially I think.

I had considered using a vitamin supplement here: https://naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/product/digestavite-plus/

The ingredients are appealing. But it's not specifically for poultry. And I can't get a detailed breakdown of levels to calculate a possible dosage. Im not buying trouble when i can avoid it for free. So the pre mix remains not possible to get for now.
I'm not an expert on spotting deficiencies. But they haven't moulted at all. It's been a cold winter. But here that just means between 5 and 0 Celsius at night. Spring is now sprunging. They seem especially fine. So maybe they are getting enough of everything for the time being. So I'm not rushing on the pre mix.

 

[Folly's place]

I just want to mention that papers mentioned earlier concerned feeding broilers (who are harvested by 12 weeks or much sooner) and layers (also dead by age two commercially) won't find health issues that matter to many of us, who plan on our birds living a lot longer.
Otherwise, my birds don't touch our ornamental lupines either, and here I'm so not interested in home made diets, so reading this is very interesting, but doesn't apply.
Mary