I did find this one, but it is suggesting a study is needed based on Ivermectin's use in treating Yellow Fever and Dengue (I had that - no fun!). I'll keep looking. It'd be great if it were found to be effective against other flaviviruses.
Avian Bird Flu - Preventatives?
- Thread starter TJAnonymous
- Start date
raingarden
Crowing
Yellow Fever and Dengue are also transmitted by mosquitos. I might be wrong, but don't think IVM has been found effictive against any virus. But, that's to be expected, right? It was developed to kill multi-cellular parasites and it does that extremely well.
It's difficult to search for IVM effects on viruses in general because the internet is clogged with IVM/covid stuff.
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Are you having sort of a bad day, or do you just enjoy verbal fencing?
I am truly asking you that to get a handle on where you are coming from.
If you truly want to understand how ivermectin works on viruses as well as parasites, there is a plethora of information on Pub. Med that you could find just as easily as I can—if you are truly interested in what this drug is, how it works and what it capable of.
This is merely the same as doing paralegal work for a court case; it is by no means a difficult endeavor.
I have been doing this type of research my whole life, and you do not even have to log into Nexus Lexis to do it; you have Pub Med. articles at your fingertips, for free, on the Internet.
I have no interest in debating or attempting convince you of something you have obviously already take a firm stand against. I can tell if I could provide you with a hundred more than valid articles, & each would be rejected by you.
Convincing you of new information is not why I am on BYC.
I was was passing on data of why you will not see ivermectin explored as a drug treatment, despite its validity and proven record for over 30 years as much more than simply an anti parasite drug.
For some reason, you seem to have taken this as a personal affront.
Perhaps you have not had people tell you before when you made the remarks you did to me that they are not necessary & are inappropriate. If so, it is good I mentioned this because otherwise you may be doing this frequently & not realize you are hurting people’s feelings. That can lead to losing out on possible friendships you could cultivate despite differences in opinion.
I realize some people enjoy debating, but I have better things to do. I am glad to share information,and you can go from there, if you truly have an interest in checking this out.
What is the reason you are enjoying being rude to someone you have never met? Truly, I am curious,
Example:
“ I am sure this is the proudest achievement in life, that you have a relative in the pharmaceutical industry.”
That is not merely a passive -aggressive statement,it is deliberately verbally couched to put someone down in a cruel way by implying they are somehow inferior to you.
I wonder what is the reason you feel it is necessary to be this way?
I do not feel it is kind or civil behavior, nor warranted, and wonder if you speak to everyone this way, or just people you do not know as you want to try to “make an example” of?
I may have caught you on a bad day, or a bad moment. We all have them, and perhaps seeing a difference of opinion spurred something in you to want to take the offensive, starting by pejorative statements, and now attempting to escalate this into some type of emotional argument.
Would you tell me, perhaps in a personal message so it doesn’t have all this drama associated with it?
You may ask why I am so jaundiced about this type of dialogue, and the back and forth debate you are attempting to initiate.
This is because I was a Justice Court Clerk, then a Justice Court Judge for the State of Utah for many years ( 14) .
I am now a retired Senior Judge. I have adjudicated many criminal & civil cases based on the evidence I was given.
I have listened to & been involved with many attorneys who like arguing for its own sake, and using these type of tactics.
You can approach learning about a case/situation through an investigative(inquisitorial) approach to find the real answers, or you can use the accusatorial approach.
That is what you are employing, and it is a method frequently used by prosecutors who are assuming guilt rather than trying to get to the crux of what occurred & why.
They miss valuable information this way by employing tunnel-vision & not considering anything else as a possibility, including other facts in the case, because they are already committed to a conclusion, and do not wish to hear anything that would be of value in changing that conclusion.
You imply the achievements of my life consist only of the fact I have relatives in the pharm. industry.
So, are you saying I am therefore a non-achiever?
The way you glibly throw in the barbs tells me this is not a one-time antipathy toward me or my opinion for whatever reason, but that it is something you are accustomed to doing with people.
I would not wish to cultivate this trait, myself, but perhaps you have had traumatic circumstances in your life that have led you to reacting in this way, instead of being able to be dispassionate in a discussion.
I can understand that response, but it can turn into a habit and lead to bullying, which is something to reflect upon.
Since you jumped to the conclusion I am poorly educated and/or lacking in life experiences, (other than having some relatives in pharmacy industry,) I thought I might mention that your prediction was misplaced; and you may not want to be making unwarranted assumptions on people you have not met.
Example: I served as a part-time & later full-time Postmaster for more than 15 years.
I was also employed in Public Affairs at the Bureau of Reclamation and was responsible for creating pamphlets on peaking power plants ( hydro electric) & a personalized pamphlet on the tour of one of the major dams, that are still used to this day. I developed safety architecture for pedestrians involved in said tours, as well.
I attended college for more than the requisite four years, since I enjoy learning, and thus I have three Bachelor of Science degrees; in Public Health, in Microbiology and in Pre -Veterinary Medicine.
During my career, I worked for two of the finest avian vets on the west coast, Dr. David Remple ( you may or may not have read some of his raptor medicine books) and Dr. George Bertram.
I was a Justice court Judge until I had to take an early retirement due to a severe illness.
After that, I still wanted to do something meaningful, so I now am the Administrator of the Uintah Raptor Rehabilitation Center, Inc.
Giving back to nature is something that might be considered to be an achievement.
Learning what veterinarians have done with ivermectin to halt West Nile Virus &
sharing that information on an avian forum may be considered an achievement by some.
I used that information myself to save two raptors that came in and had been diagnosed by throat swabs in the labs as having West Nile using that vet’s protocol which I cited.
You may think, “Oh, so what, she saved a couple of birds.” — but those birds lives were just as important to them as your life is to you.
Anecdotal experience, which you so easily dismiss, such as the veterinarian cited with the West Nile Virus case, is most often how scientific discoveries are initially noted, remarked upon, and further studied, in labs as well as in the field. The discovery of Prozac was this way; you may research that if you wish.
Many of our medical discoveries were made by trying a new drug for one thing, then finding it had a different effect that was quite valuable for a different ailment.
I think you may already be aware of that, I believe you are an intelligent person.
If you perused thru the other articles I provided, you would see that articles noted at least five viral families that ivermectin effected and halted their reproduction in vivo. There are many more available articles if you take the time to look.
It is unfortunate we could not at least have been civil acquaintenances, especially on a nice forum like this one, where everyone is interested in birds and all things associated with them, rather than engage in this sort of written debate ( which would be useless, since you have already decided what you believe; it’s not a real discussion).
When you spoke of achievements; I thought about this quite a lot.
I feel being able to communicate effectively, and respond with kindness and compassion towards others is an achievement that someone could feel good about.
Sharing interesting, possibly useful, new information others may not have seen is an achievement; they can do as they will with the data from there. At least it was provided.
Being a good and loyal friend, a listener, a learner, a caring family member, showing love, patience, honestly and kindness are LARGER achievements in my book than collecting titles, or even the various jobs I have held, which were, I feel, useful to our society.
I will not be responding further, as it appears you do not wish to make new friends, or learn why they think the way they do, when you disagree with them. I find that a shame, for I have many friends who do not share my views or I theirs and yet we have lots of great discussions on other things and really enjoy each other’s company, and have become as sisters over the years.
You miss out on making new friends by hurting people’s feelings with unjustified critical remarks from the first time you are introduced.
I am not upset at you, and I wish you well, for I have no idea what brought you to this point in reacting like this; perhaps some bad experiences in your life.
And, I hope you have a better day tomorrow, because I still have hopes that maybe I, unfortunately, touched some sort of nerve with you when you were not in a good place and this response was not your usual way of dealing with people.
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No, it has been found to be effective against at least five families of viruses through various mechanisms in vivo. Not merely by killing the mosquito vectors.
Yes, the Internet is clogged with the Covid/ivermectin /Merck controversy so you have to go back several pages on Pub med. the articles begin in about 2004 with experiments on SARS, the corona virus, showing high efficacy. If you would like to see more, I can send them to you, some are a bit technical, you may wish to read the introduction, then the results posted at the bottom of the articles. Some articles I pay for, I will try to send you the free ones, if you are truly interested. The properties shown are very unique, as both a viricidal drug as capable as acyclovir; and as an anti parasite drug. It also has shown efficacy in soft-tissue, viral-induced, cancers.
Contact me if you are interested, I don’t want to be a bother. However, virology and parasitology are two of my favorite subjects, so I have kept upon them since college. I followed Shi Jheng Li’s work all the way from 2003, and it was not a surprise that she started with SARS, then ended with Covid, all she cares about is getting her work published.
Yes. Here is one example: it is technical, big not difficult to understand. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32135219/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32135219/
please read the article all the way thru that I provide. It describes the mechanism of ivermectin TARGETING the virus.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888155/
Ivermectin, a broadly used anti-helminthic drug, proved to be a highly potent inhibitor of YFV replication (EC50 values in the sub-nanomolar range). Moreover, ivermectin inhibited, although less efficiently, the replication of several other flaviviruses, i.e. dengue fever, Japanese encephalitis and tick-borne encephalitis viruses. Ivermectin exerts its effect at a timepoint that coincides with the onset of intracellular viral RNA synthesis, as expected for a molecule that specifically targets the viral helicase.
This is from peer reviewed article( all those off pub med I am sending you are. This shows mechanism of action).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888155/
This is from the article above, onNewcastle Disease, peer reviewed, pub med, how iivermectin works. I copied a section towards the end below that you can enlarge.
showed a slightly higher percentage of egg laying (66.01%) compared to birds that did not receive ivermectin (61.90%) (P= 0.15, Proportion test). After 6 days of treatment, birds that received ivermectin showed a higher percentage of egg laying (67.73%) compared to birds that did not receive ivermectin (61.88%) (P= 0.07, Proportion test). After 7 days, egg production returned to a normal egg-laying pattern in the animals treated with ivermectin, and showed a significantly higher percentage of egg laying (71.98%) compared to birds that did not receive ivermectin (64.68%) (P= 0.03, Proportion test).
After 4 days of treatment, in the flock of the birds affected by NDV and ILTV, a mortality of approximately 7 hens per day (out of 5,000 hens) was detected for 5 days. Necropsy showed that these 35 hens died with peritonitis typical of Newcastle disease due to egg rupture. In all cases, the organs of the respiratory tract (trachea and lungs) showed no macroscopic lesions. After 2 weeks, the birds affected by NDV and ILTV returned to their normal behavior.
DISCUSSION
The present anecdotal report shows an interesting evidence of the efficiency of a single dose of Ivermectin, in the treatment and short recovery time of laying hens infected with avian NDV and ILTV. Remarkably, recovery of clinical signs for both diseases was achieved in less than 24 hours. Similarly, a recovery of egg production was shown in treated birds in a shorter time than usual (2 weeks versus 8 weeks that usually takes recovery). The dose used to control the viral infection in this case report, was 0.2 mL of a 1% ivermectin solution equivalent to 200 μg/kg body weight.
bioRxiv preprint doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.07.29.226027; this version posted July 30, 2020. The copyright holder for this preprint (which was not certified by peer review) is the author/funder. All rights reserved. No reuse allowed without permission.
The mortality observed 4 days after treatment was very low (35/5,000), necropsies confirmed that chickens died from peritonitis associated with the rupture of eggs possibly caused by a previous fever.
The clinical, pathological and serological results were correlated with undetectable levels of viral load. These results confirm that the treatment was in some way effective in eliminating the virus, and not only in eliminating symptoms.
Several studies have shown evidence that ivermectin would have a potent antiviral action against HIV-1 and dengue virus, both dependent on the superfamily of importins which are necessary for different important metabolic processes of the cell (Caly et al., 2020). Ivermectin is suspected to play an important role in altering HIV-1 integrase and NS-5 polymerase (non-structural protein 5) in dengue virus (Wagstaff et al., 2015) (Yang et al., 2020). Evidence has been shown that ivermectin inhibits in vitro replication of some single-stranded RNA viruses such as Zika (Barrows et al., 2016), yellow fever and other alpha viruses (Varghese et al., 2016) (Mastrangelo et al., 2012). Thomas reported the short-term elimination of nematodes that parasitized the ocular nictitating membrane of exotic birds in a US zoo (Thomas-Baker, 1986). Recent studies suggest that Ivermectin is a potent specific inhibitor of import-mediated nuclear transport α/β, showing antiviral activity against several RNA viruses, blocking specific pathways of nuclear traffic in viral proteins (Caly L et al., 2020)
Some characteristics of ivermectin comprise, a low solubility, strong binding and rapid decomposition in the soil, rapid degradation under sunlight, low bioconcentration factor, low plant absorption, and it does not spread with percolation water, nor does it accumulate in the environment. In addition, at high levels, it has not been detected in animal wastes at toxic levels, nor in most plants and animals, terrestrial or aquatic, so it would not cause adverse environmental effects (Bruce et al., 2000).
showed a slightly higher percentage of egg laying (66.01%) compared to birds that did not receive ivermectin (61.90%) (P= 0.15, Proportion test). After 6 days of treatment, birds that received ivermectin showed a higher percentage of egg laying (67.73%) compared to birds that did not receive ivermectin (61.88%) (P= 0.07, Proportion test). After 7 days, egg production returned to a normal egg-laying pattern in the animals treated with ivermectin, and showed a significantly higher percentage of egg laying (71.98%) compared to birds that did not receive ivermectin (64.68%) (P= 0.03, Proportion test).
After 4 days of treatment, in the flock of the birds affected by NDV and ILTV, a mortality of approximately 7 hens per day (out of 5,000 hens) was detected for 5 days. Necropsy showed that these 35 hens died with peritonitis typical of Newcastle disease due to egg rupture. In all cases, the organs of the respiratory tract (trachea and lungs) showed no macroscopic lesions. After 2 weeks, the birds affected by NDV and ILTV returned to their normal behavior.
DISCUSSION
The present anecdotal report shows an interesting evidence of the efficiency of a single dose of Ivermectin, in the treatment and short recovery time of laying hens infected with avian NDV and ILTV. Remarkably, recovery of clinical signs for both diseases was achieved in less than 24 hours. Similarly, a recovery of egg production was shown in treated birds in a shorter time than usual (2 weeks versus 8 weeks that usually takes recovery). The dose used to control the viral infection in this case report, was 0.2 mL of a 1% ivermectin solution equivalent to 200 μg/kg body weight.
bioRxiv preprint doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.07.29.226027; this version posted July 30, 2020. The copyright holder for this preprint (which was not certified by peer review) is the author/funder. All rights reserved. No reuse allowed without permission.
The mortality observed 4 days after treatment was very low (35/5,000), necropsies confirmed that chickens died from peritonitis associated with the rupture of eggs possibly caused by a previous fever.
The clinical, pathological and serological results were correlated with undetectable levels of viral load. These results confirm that the treatment was in some way effective in eliminating the virus, and not only in eliminating symptoms.
Several studies have shown evidence that ivermectin would have a potent antiviral action against HIV-1 and dengue virus, both dependent on the superfamily of importins which are necessary for different important metabolic processes of the cell (Caly et al., 2020). Ivermectin is suspected to play an important role in altering HIV-1 integrase and NS-5 polymerase (non-structural protein 5) in dengue virus (Wagstaff et al., 2015) (Yang et al., 2020). Evidence has been shown that ivermectin inhibits in vitro replication of some single-stranded RNA viruses such as Zika (Barrows et al., 2016), yellow fever and other alpha viruses (Varghese et al., 2016) (Mastrangelo et al., 2012). Thomas reported the short-term elimination of nematodes that parasitized the ocular nictitating membrane of exotic birds in a US zoo (Thomas-Baker, 1986). Recent studies suggest that Ivermectin is a potent specific inhibitor of import-mediated nuclear transport α/β, showing antiviral activity against several RNA viruses, blocking specific pathways of nuclear traffic in viral proteins (Caly L et al., 2020)
Some characteristics of ivermectin comprise, a low solubility, strong binding and rapid decomposition in the soil, rapid degradation under sunlight, low bioconcentration factor, low plant absorption, and it does not spread with percolation water, nor does it accumulate in the environment. In addition, at high levels, it has not been detected in animal wastes at toxic levels, nor in most plants and animals, terrestrial or aquatic, so it would not cause adverse environmental effects (Bruce et al., 2000).
Another helpful quote from above:
Most importantly, ivermectin proved to be a selective inhibitor of the replication of several flaviviruses in cell culture, such as JEV, TBEV and DENV (sub-micromolar EC50 values), and a highly potent inhibitor of YFV replication (sub-nanomolar EC50 values). Considering that this well tolerated drug has been licensed for >20years for the treatment of parasitic infections in man, our results provide the prospect of the first specific anti-flavivirus therapy by the off-label use of ivermectin (patent application EP2010/065880).
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