Ayam Cemani cross breeding

[CrisAnderson27]

Depends on the quality of your AC, if he's homozygous (double black gene as you said) for the black then only black legged chicks will be his. Same with the down colours- if he is homozygous then only black based chicks will be his. however, this includes dominant modifiers like barring or blue that may have come from he hen.

This is interesting to me. I have had an AC roo over a whole flock of hens...including barred rocks and even a Cornish X. The Cornish X crossing gave me four babies. The first turned out to be a rooster. Red comb/wattles, white feathers (with one tiny black spot) and mottled/patchy skin/shanks. He's almost 14wks. The other three are similar to each other, but from two different hatches. They have black or mostly black (it's actually a dark grey color) skin, with varying degrees of darkness on the beak and toes. Feathers are white with black spots in the down, and grow out with the black spots producing black feathers in the white base color.

4wks. You can see the black coming out. You can also see a barred rock cockerel on the right, with a head spot still showing clearly.

7wks old (all of the birds pictured). The four on the right are their barred rock hatchmates (including the one in the above picture). The first three left to right are barred, the fourth to the right is all black.

You can see they outgrew their hatchmates very quickly. They're easily twice the size or more. I believe these white birds are female, but I don't know if AC/CX would create a sex linked chick. They are feathering out quite beautifully. I'll try to get a better picture today.

What interested me most about your comment is the modifier of barring as you said. Some of my AC/BR chicks come out all black. No barring or white spots on their heads. Others come out with white head spots and black down, which then grow into barred chicks. Am I right in assuming anything with a spot on their head at hatch, growing out barred...will be a male? All of them have black or grey skin, with varying degrees of darkness in the toes.

It's funny...the temperament of the birds is very interesting. The Cornish X crosses are VERY attentive and outright sweet. They love being held and love to be close to me, often walking on my feet. The Barred Rock crosses are equally attentive...and can be quite sweet as well, but it's a 50/50 shot of whether you're going to get bit. Hard. And they don't let go. If they don't bite you they will happily put their chest into your palm to be picked up. If they bite however, you literally have to slap them off before they'll let go. I've never seen chicks act like that...it's kind of crazy lol.

I also have an Ayam Cemani hen in with my big splash Ameraucana (not EE, not Americana...an actual Ameraucana). I put them together just before sexual maturity, and they've only been with each other. First mating was on the 27th, and yesterday was my first egg from her. They are TINY lol. She gave me another today as well. If I can hatch them...will the chicks be sex linked? I'm hoping for splash hens with pea combs alongside black skin and shanks.

Her first two eggs. Half the size of my 8mo old barred rock girl's!

 

[CrisAnderson27]

Here's a video that shows the six birds I'm talking about above (at about 5-6wks), along with a whole slew of week old AC/BR chicks:

 

[Eric Rosario]

hello, as per your pictures, your offspring is nearly the same as ours. We had AC roo with different hens including brown. Two young females are black skinned with white feathers and remaining 10 are pure black. Young males are white, barred or even pure black.

4 pure black roo are messing up my understanding of the AC genes as there should be no black skinned male in the first generation but we have 4 already.

how can we get black skinned brownish feathered chickens? as all the babies are either black, white or barred?

Is actualy AC homozygous black? so only further mixing could reduce the dominant extended black from feathers?

our young pure black females started to visit the nesting boxes which is really surprising laying pinky eggs. I've noticed that their body shape is wider and more massive than the orignal pure AC hens.[/QUOTE]

 

[Liviepaigesmom]

I'm going to have Ayam Cemani/Barred Rock, Ayam Cemani/Ameraucana (both blue/black/splash and self blue/lavender) by next spring. My rooster's old enough, but my girls are all still too young lol.

I may even have Ayam Cemani/Cornish X if they live long enough, lol.

This is my roo, Johnny:

View attachment 2157652

Should be some fun stuff!

I'm crossing an AC roo and a red ranger in my next batch.

 

[Liviepaigesmom]

hello, as per your pictures, your offspring is nearly the same as ours. We had AC roo with different hens including brown. Two young females are black skinned with white feathers and remaining 10 are pure black. Young males are white, barred or even pure black.

4 pure black roo are messing up my understanding of the AC genes as there should be no black skinned male in the first generation but we have 4 already.

how can we get black skinned brownish feathered chickens? as all the babies are either black, white or barred?

Is actualy AC homozygous black? so only further mixing could reduce the dominant extended black from feathers?

our young pure black females started to visit the nesting boxes which is really surprising laying pinky eggs. I've noticed that their body shape is wider and more massive than the orignal pure AC hens.

[/QUOTE]
Have you looked at the ayum cemani website? There is an article there that explains the gene that causes black skin and bones. My understanding is that a pure ayum can have one copy of the x gene or two. They suggest breeding your roo to other non ayum hens and and your hens to a regular room if the offspring are pure black than the ayum has two copies of the gene and if they offspring are mixed than it only has one. You want your mating pairs to have the double gene if you are trying g to get the blackest of black. The article explains it a lot better than I am. K will try and figure out how to post it.

 

[Liviepaigesmom]

https://ayamcemani.us/how-to-breed-your-ayam-cemani/

 

[Eric Rosario]

Have you looked at the ayum cemani website? There is an article there that explains the gene that causes black skin and bones. My understanding is that a pure ayum can have one copy of the x gene or two. They suggest breeding your roo to other non ayum hens and and your hens to a regular room if the offspring are pure black than the ayum has two copies of the gene and if they offspring are mixed than it only has one. You want your mating pairs to have the double gene if you are trying g to get the blackest of black. The article explains it a lot better than I am. K will try and figure out how to post it.
[/QUOTE]
Hello, (sorry for later response)
i've seen many information so far about the AC. thank you for your link i will check that for some more info.
What I'm not sure is the black feather of AC is it the same EE as other black breed with white/yellow skin? as we have so many black feathered chickcens now, some from Black brahma, some from marans, and now from AC. Only two pullets are blackskined with white feathers.

 

[Willawong Hill]

The white looks like it's dominant white, so it covers the black but not totally- bits peep through, it's called paint or erminette colour in other chickens i think. Maybe try a search for those colours on here if you're interested.

 

[Eric Rosario]

The white looks like it's dominant white, so it covers the black but not totally- bits peep through, it's called paint or erminette colour in other chickens i think. Maybe try a search for those colours on here if you're interested.

Yes, our white is dominant, it comes from meaty white bird that are used on farms for quick meat production (this chickens are actually granddaughters of the original breed)
I'm curious about the black color, i've not found that there could be different black gene that modifies the feather. Black color for feathers is dominant marked as "E" so to get a non black feathered chickens with black skin we need to carry the black skin and negate the dominant black. Using a pure breed AC roo with his daughers to recieve blackskinned roos will again uses E from father for sure. That's why I'm planing to use a barred roo, he is a bit mottled on his skin, some black (ash) spots on comb etc and he is a larger in size than his father pure AC and he is actually not black in feathers.
Using this roo with his sisters could create blackskinned roos and pullets aswell as whiteskinned in both genders. Using this roo with nonAC should create only 50% blackskinned pullets but maybe with different feather colours and features based on mother's genes.
I've already some interesting results from 2020 that i would like to mix together

 

[Newyorkrita]

I found this thread very interesting. I had not known that about the one copy of the x gene or two.