Black Copper Marans... Lacking Copper

[Silkie-Feet]

I've been wanting to experiment with Marans for a little bit now, when I found these at the local flea market I let my chicken addiction get the best of me. They looked very healthy, and they were reasonably priced (four hens and a rooster for $60) so I went for it! These Marans presumably come out of a good line from a breeder in Ohio; this guy's knowledge of the breed was limited so I'm sure the line has dropped significantly while in his care. I've spent the entire afternoon researching, and with the knowledge I have gathered in an afternoon I can tell that these birds have some defects. For starters, the cockrel has only sparse copper coloration in his Hackel and none throughout the body. The copper coloration on the hens is negligible. These Marans are nearly a year old, can I expect more copper coloration to develop in coming years?
If not, how difficult would it be to get a good copper coloration back into these birds (I.e can I expect some progeny to express more copper coloration)?

Here are some images of my birds, I just took these and it's a little late so they're not the best quality!

 

[sylviethecochin]

If they have copper, then you can selectively breed for more copper. However, I would say that those chickens are a bit old to be developing more color--I've never raised marans, but those look like two-year-olds to me--possibly older. Again, not an expert on marans.

Was he telling the truth about their age?

 

[Silkie-Feet]

If they have copper, then you can selectively breed for more copper. However, I would say that those chickens are a bit old to be developing more color--I've never raised marans, but those look like two-year-olds to me--possibly older. Again, not an expert on marans.

Was he telling the truth about their age?

Thanks for your input! You are more than likely correct that these birds are older than a year old, the hen's combs have dropped which -now that you point it out- makes me believe that they are later in production. However, I'm planning on gathering an incubator full of eggs from these hens and having about 50 progeny to select from come next spring. I'm trying to see if I should expect some progeny to show some good coloration, or if I will have to mix in some hens from other lines for more copper.

 

[sylviethecochin]

Why don't you hatch all of your eggs and then buy a quality rooster? As my uncle the professional cattle farmer says--the bull is half the herd. And that way you're not inbreeding.

To clarify--I mean an older rooster who will be gentle and breed your new, homegrown pullets. I'm sure you can find something at your local fair right about the time you'll need a rooster.

Unless your fair doesn't do chickens, of course.

 

[dlp40]

I would say that along with the low copper color, the type looks off on these birds as well. Marans should have a more blocky shape to them vs the more elongated shape these birds have. I do love the amount of leg feathering they all seem to have.
If they where mine is be looking for another group of black cooper marans from another source. Then I would put the rooster from your current group in with the new hens and vice versa for the other rooster and hens. That way you could have some good vigor breed into your chicks and a better chance for the good parts of each line to show up in the next gen.

If you just keep your current marans and expect more copper, it is likely you will end up with each gen looking like the parents. New blood is the way to go imo.
Hope this was some help to you.
David

 

[snowbird]

What you really have to decide is if you want to send good money after bad investing. I believe it would be better to just do your research on BC Marans and then contact a couple of breeders and explain what you are interested in for future breedings. You could invest a lot of money in your present Marans and still not be able to raise anything close to what the APA SOP says they should look like. Sorry for your bad experience. Don

 

[Silkie-Feet]

Alright everyone, I'm beginning to think that these birds are either from a black line... or have been selected to be black marans. I asked the breeder I bought these birds from, and he said that they are not supposed to have any copper coloration. Given that the hens show no copper, I aim to get these birds to fulfill the Black Marans standards. My cockerel only expresss copper in the hackle, not the saddle. I think it will be easier for me to select against the leaky copper than to try to breed in more coloration. We'll see how this goes!

 

[The Moonshiner]

Have you gotten any eggs from them yet?
I'd be checking egg color/shade before making any final plans.

 

[Silkie-Feet]

Have you gotten any eggs from them yet?
I'd be checking egg color/shade before making any final plans.

I actually got three eggs today, all of them were about a 5 on the Marans scale. This was the egg in the nest box when I let them out to free range this morning.

 

[The Moonshiner]

That's good color to work with in my opinion.
I did some breeding with marans. One thing I noticed is that everyone says their birds are from good lines but a lot ended up junk.
I have some cuckoo now that lay lighter eggs then many of my regular brown egg layers. Egg color was always a pain in the °ss.
Egg color was always my top priority. I wasn't trying to show them but wanted them to fit the standard.
I had some good BBS and the only rooster showed a little silver leakage in his hackles. It never showed in the hens but kept coming up in the males. It took 3 or 4 generations and quite a few birds before I got past it.
I had BCM where the roosters were good but hens had little to no copper. I worked on them for a few years but never really got any improvement.
Then I brought in a Blue copper rooster to work with BBS copper and after the first generation I seen improvement. I kept at it and ended up using roosters that had almost to much copper but that did end up getting the hens where I wanted them. Some of the cockerels ended up with too much copper.
Then I breed a few generations with only the birds with the most copper. Now I still have a rooster from two years ago and he has a ton of color. Too much but I like him.
Attached. Is a pic of him.