Black crested White Polish

[I Like Turkeys]

There’s been threads about this variety before but none lasted long. I am starting my own to prioritize information about the birds, as well as that I am getting BcW chicks from Ideal Poultry in about two weeks. I’ve researched this variety a lot, and there isn’t much information on them unfortunately.
According to the APA standard, the entire body should be white. The crest should be black without any white coming through, and black is allowed to cover the upper 1/3 or 1/2 of the neck depending on whether a bird is female or male.

This, above, is a photo of the BcW that greenfire farms imported. They do not breed this variety any more.
The BcW in the US right now are recreations, as the actual variety died off sometime in the 1900s. The current gene pool for these birds is very small, and their health suffers for it.
I believe the desired genotype for birds of this color should be one of the following:
E^R/E^R, Co/Co, Db/Db, cha/cha, S/S or S-
or
e^b/e^b, Co/Co, Db/Db, cha/cha, S/S or S-
This isn’t to say that all birds are this genotype; most probably aren’t. I’ve heard of birds from Ideal coming in silver-laced, solid white birds popping up in birds descended from their lines, and general poor color quality. I most commonly see breast leakage or birds who are almost spangled or laced.

I’ve gotten some photos from the facebook group to show these differences.
Below, in my opinion, is a good quality hen. I’m not sure, but her wing carriage may be too high.

This juvenile almost looks to be laced, not good:

this male looks decent, but has breast leakage, white crest ends, and a few black tail speckles:

I’ve not seen many BcW with crest size similar to other more popular polish varieties. I am getting 20 birds from Ideal, then hatching eggs from a breeder closer to summer.

Since I am obsessed, I combed through all of Ideal’s social pages to find photos of their BcW. I found one, it’s 2 or 3 years old though. I believe it highlights the crest size issues. I need to study body SOP to know how bad theirs is though.

If anybody on backyardchickens owns this variety i’d be ecstatic to see photos, and hear of your experiences with them. I’ve heard they’re a difficult color to work with, but I am excited to get mine. I’ll update here about raising them when I actually get some.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

Woo!chicks came in healthy and alive! One issue.. I only got 19 BcW polish, Ideal gave me what looks to be a self blue cochin instead of a polish.

Relating to the topic of the birds I made this thread about, I heard that chick down can determine how nicely-patterned a bird is. Darker chicks tend to be worse patterned, and lighter down coloring seems to be better.
I have mostly a bunch of super dark chicks, so I’m expecting poor patterning, but 4(not including the oops! chick) had noticeably lighter down. I still intend on waiting until about 6 months old to separate keepers from cull birds. Here are some photos.

Lighter chick:

Group shots:

Dark chick beside light chick:

 

[I Like Turkeys]

I’ve lost a total of 9 chicks in 5 days, including the mixed-up cochin. Of my 11 remaining polish, I feel they seem healthy. They’ve been bulking up, though one is runtier than the others, and I still have at least two I feel could be good for starting a breeding program.
So far, it seems correct that the lighter chicks have better coloration. They only have wing feathers at the moment, but I have two light chicks and their wings are considerably better colored than the others.
I‘ve attached some photos below.

The above photos are of darker chicks. The below is of a lighter chick. This one has a bit of black smudging, but it is still better than the rest of the chicks.

I may order some more from ideal soon, to boost population and the amount of good starting birds to work with. Who knows though.

 

[BlessedChaosHomestead]

So you're trying to breed specific genes to get the correct colors, right?

Why not order from different hatcheries of the same color to intersperse genetics, e.g. not all from the same hen/roo combo?

That color pattern makes me think of Elvis in the 70's. lol

 

[I Like Turkeys]

So you're trying to breed specific genes to get the correct colors, right?

Why not order from different hatcheries of the same color to intersperse genetics, e.g. not all from the same hen/roo combo?

That color pattern makes me think of Elvis in the 70's. lol

Ideal Poultry is the only largescale hatchery i've found to have them, but either way it'd be just as much work to breed birds from multiple hatcheries to get a better quality polish. There aren't many decent BcW in the US.
That being said, I am looking at getting hatching eggs from somebody.

It isn't just color I am trying to work on. My general aim is to breed these birds to standard, so that includes 'type' as well as color.

Also, I am not intending to breed just one 'hen/roo combo'. It depends on how many birds I get to adulthood and how many I keep, but I would prefer-if possible- at least two breeding pairs, and attempt clan mating from there, where I could also cross lines if need be for vigor.

 

[JedJackson]

You're in for a huge challenge! That coloring is going to be very, very difficult to get right. I would concentrate on type first before worrying too much about crest size. Even though the original variety went extinct, I would bet that it was also difficult even then to get the colors right due to genetics. If you look at moor head owlbeards, the coloring seems to work the same way, even without the crest. The coloring extends too low and then there are small patches and spots of black even lower down.

I am not sure what crosses were used to recreate the breed. I've read Lakenvelders were sometimes used, which may account for the increased amount of black in the wings and elsewhere.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

There’s been threads about this variety before but none lasted long. I am starting my own to prioritize information about the birds, as well as that I am getting BcW chicks from Ideal Poultry in about two weeks. I’ve researched this variety a lot, and there isn’t much information on them unfortunately.
According to the APA standard, the entire body should be white. The crest should be black without any white coming through, and black is allowed to cover the upper 1/3 or 1/2 of the neck depending on whether a bird is female or male.
View attachment 3394861
This, above, is a photo of the BcW that greenfire farms imported. They do not breed this variety any more.
The BcW in the US right now are recreations, as the actual variety died off sometime in the 1900s. The current gene pool for these birds is very small, and their health suffers for it.
I believe the desired genotype for birds of this color should be one of the following:
E^R/E^R, Co/Co, Db/Db, cha/cha, S/S or S-
or
e^b/e^b, Co/Co, Db/Db, cha/cha, S/S or S-
This isn’t to say that all birds are this genotype; most probably aren’t. I’ve heard of birds from Ideal coming in silver-laced, solid white birds popping up in birds descended from their lines, and general poor color quality. I most commonly see breast leakage or birds who are almost spangled or laced.

I’ve gotten some photos from the facebook group to show these differences.
Below, in my opinion, is a good quality hen. I’m not sure, but her wing carriage may be too high.
View attachment 3394875
This juvenile almost looks to be laced, not good:
View attachment 3394873
this male looks decent, but has breast leakage, white crest ends, and a few black tail speckles:View attachment 3394870
I’ve not seen many BcW with crest size similar to other more popular polish varieties. I am getting 20 birds from Ideal, then hatching eggs from a breeder closer to summer.

Since I am obsessed, I combed through all of Ideal’s social pages to find photos of their BcW. I found one, it’s 2 or 3 years old though. I believe it highlights the crest size issues. I need to study body SOP to know how bad theirs is though.
View attachment 3394878
If anybody on backyardchickens owns this variety i’d be ecstatic to see photos, and hear of your experiences with them. I’ve heard they’re a difficult color to work with, but I am excited to get mine. I’ll update here about raising them when I actually get some.

I can post older photos of my trio I had a few years ago if you'd like that came from Ideal. One interesting thing about them was that one of my pullets was a completely different color as a chick than the other two.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

You're in for a huge challenge! That coloring is going to be very, very difficult to get right. I would concentrate on type first before worrying too much about crest size. Even though the original variety went extinct, I would bet that it was also difficult even then to get the colors right due to genetics. If you look at moor head owlbeards, the coloring seems to work the same way, even without the crest. The coloring extends too low and then there are small patches and spots of black even lower down.

I am not sure what crosses were used to recreate the breed. I've read Lakenvelders were sometimes used, which may account for the increased amount of black in the wings and elsewhere.

I’m aware I’m in for a challenge, but I’m still interested in breeding them. Type is also definitely something I’m taking into consideration.

I can post older photos of my trio I had a few years ago if you'd like that came from Ideal. One interesting thing about them was that one of my pullets was a completely different color as a chick than the other two.

That‘d be nice.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Here they are at about 9 months. I'll see if I can hunt down the baby pictures

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Here's the funky one as a pullet too

The two lighter crested ones are the 2 I assume were the right chick color

And the darker one drinking in front (not the partridge) is the funky one

As adults, you couldn't tell which one was which based on color, but as chicks it was quite easy