Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[catdaddyfro]

Only from what I've read here and on another forum, the sex is determined at conception and by the female (unlike in humans) These same folks state that male embryos tend to be "less fragile" than female embryos and therefore more males are likely hatched than females. I have read it to be a myth that temperature has anything to do with the male vs female outcome of a hatch. I hatched between 120 - 130 chicks last year and overall(not looking at each hatch), I had a few more pullets than cockerels but not considerably so. I hatched from Dec thru March last year

Man I been out of sorts here for the last few days so I got a lot to read LOL this thread can get like a runaway train before you know it.

Here's an example of what Scott is referring too I believe, anyway I have a broody gameX that lays,sets and hatches in the garage all of these are her eggs and she has a 98-100% hatch rate too. This summer she hatched out 3 different broods first was 7 out of 9 the ratio male to female was 3males 4 females, next was 6 out of 6 all six females, next was 11 out of 13, 2 males and 9 females she is a dominant female egg-layer this time around. Next time it may all be male or predominantly males. 2 years ago I hatched out 13 out of 15 silver phoenix half-breed eggs in the 'bator' I got 12 female and 1 male(best m to f ratio I ever had out of a 'bator' hatch) I'd say temperature or fragility has not a lot to do with it. I'm convinced as Scott pointed out the sex is determined at fertilization by the ova the hen produces.

Jeff

 

[fowlman01]

Hi Walt,
I think this is it. Explained by the always opinionated Judge Robinson:

Standard poultry for exhibition ...
By John Henry Robinson
http://tinyurl.com/9wz4pfs
The Old and New aspects of Light Brahma coloring explained on Pages 98 thru 100 .
Yes??
Karen

Sorry that I didn't answer that earlier, but after reading it, I knew it was not going to be a quick post. I think you answered your own question after further research. It is quite possible that eWh was substituted for eb. They were doing all this visually then and did not have the genetic understanding then that is available now. Generally as the undercolor gets darker the bird will start to have ticking show up...usually in the tail.....starting on the underside of the tail feathers. Good light Brahma's should have light bluish slate undercolor and the Sussex white undercolor, so your suspicions may be correct.. I have seen more than a few light Brahma's with white undercolor.

Bently could probably add to the comments......

Walt

 

[mschlumb]

Only from what I remember sitting in an intro Poultry class at university of Maine, taught by Dr. Paul ______.  The skull is thin to allow penetration. THis was 30 years ago-- maybe information has changed?

He also reported that someone was  experimenting with  lights:  lights on for a short time during night to trigger laying with less use of full time 14-16 hr lighting ( to reduce the energy cost in the big poultry barns.) 

You are correct, there is a thin spot on the back of the skull that I believe red wavelength light penetrates. Stimulating egg production and breeding activity. I just heard this in lecture this past fall.

 

[Fred's Hens]

When I increase light, I follow the commercial laying industry's protocol. I increase it 15 minutes a day, until I achieve the desire total light hours. Studies seems to indicate that it is the increasing light that is most effective, rather than just snapping on an extra 4 hours all at once. FWIW.

It's a bit of a pain doing it gradually, but it certainly pays dividends, I guess.

I can get you the link to that, if you wish.

 

[fowlman01]

OK.....CSU is starting. https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...te-university-large-fowl-sop/10#post_10198120

Walt

 

[ChickChickChicky]

OK.....CSU is starting. https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...te-university-large-fowl-sop/10#post_10198120

Walt

Thanks for posting that, Walt. Even though I'm not set up to breed right now and have nothing anywhere NEAR being show-worthy, I LOVE learning all I can.

 

[lildinkem]

Anyone in the Indiana area get yourself up early and well fed for
State 4-H Poultry Workshop
Saturday, January 5, 2013
10:00 a.m.—1:30 p.m
Boone Co. Farm Bureau Community Building
Boone County 4-H Fairgrounds, Lebanon; I-65 at exit 138
Location Map:
http://www.ag.purdue.edu/counties/boone/Pages/OfficeLocation.aspx
Food & Drinks Available throughout the workshop
Exhibition quality birds will be available for purchase; first come, first serve
Workshop Presentations:
Basics of Judging Large Fowl Chickens—– Jonathan Patterson is a poultry
judge in the APA Apprentice Program. He judges numerous poultry shows yearly.
All About Bantams, Different Classes & More; Poultry Show Supplies
Ron Patterson is the Show Manager for the Central Indiana Poultry Show and the
Indiana State Fair Open Poultry Show. He judges several county fairs.
Judging Exhibition Poultry - Jack Patterson served as the Indiana State Fair
Open Poultry Show Manager for 17 years. Youth participants have the
opportunity to judge several breeds—large fowl and bantam.
Raising Healthy Poultry from Hatch to Show—Doug Akers has raised
numerous breeds of poultry and waterfowl for many years.
Judging Meat Bird Chickens & Egg Layer Basics – Tim Calloway,
Commercial Poultry Judge, is a judge at the Indiana State Fair and numerous
county fairs. He will describe what the commercial poultry judge is looking for.

 

[mlowen]

I'm leaning in this direction only because I was thinking about the shadows and was not sure if that would cause problems or not. I have no problem installing or doing the wiring....that's no big deal to me. My only concern is that I will have 9 lights running maybe more if I light up my other 4 pens. Just don't want to be throwing good money out the window for no reason. lol! I'm saying that after I spent all this money on building these pens.... lol!! My wife is going to kill me if I keep it up.

Chris

Just be very careful not to get "tough outdoor" lights that have teflon on them. Their off-gasses are deadly to birds.http://www.rootsimple.com/2012/07/teflon-coated-light-bulbs-deadly-to-chickens/

 

[Bentley]

Birds do not perceive the light through eye sight. There is research where they removed the eyes of sparrows (I didn't do it, its old OLD research) and they were still stimulated by changes in light duration even without eyesight through the perception of light by the pineal gland in the brain.

More on the topic of light stimulation for reproduction. The reason we add extended day lengths is to 'trick' the birds in to thinking that spring is here because the days are getting longer. So it is important that the the duration of light be constant. If they get 14 hours per day for several weeks then one day they get 10 hours light they may perceive that as Fall and shortening days so its time to shut down egg production. It only takes 14 hours of continuous day length to stimulate sexual maturation in the bird. Anything over 18 hours is not helpful and can be detrimental. Birds need to have a 'beginning of day' in which many of their activities are keyed off. So if light stimulation is longer than 18 hours they often don't perceive a beginning to their day and therefore their egg cycle can be very sporadic. This can be bad when you have birds laying eggs at all hours of the day rather than predominantly in the morning hours. Eggs laid late in the evening hours will likely sit in the nest all night and in colder climates this is not good for their hatchability.

So does adding light to their day always work? No, not when the climate they are exposed to is not controlled. When I lived in the deserts of Arizona my birds had very long days in the middle of the summer but they did not lay very well at all. the heat was just too stressful for them, especially the larger more heavy feathered birds. The heat was too stressful for them so they actually laid better in the winter months when I gave them light stimulation. On the flip side, creating long days in the middle of winter in northern climates may not work as well, especially for the hard feathered and smaller birds. The cold their is more stressful. So light stimulation can, in general keep birds laying through the winter, but other factors also have a role in this.

Does it matter where the light is coming from and how intense it is? Sort of. When birds have been housed in black out houses (complete light control to delay sexual maturity by only giving 8 hours light per day) even the smallest of light leaking in can cause some birds to become sexual mature and sometimes even other 'daylight sounds' can trigger the birds by giving them a 'start to the day' in which they key on even without light stimulation. But, this does no occur that often but can. Like I said before, the biggest problem with low level lights coming from a single source is the possible shadows it could throw and the extra 'hiding places' the hens might find to lay their eggs or even go broody. So, light intensity and uniformity can, in some cases,effect egg production but usually not to a great extent. Somewhere in the order of possibly reducing egg production from 80% to 78%. If you have 1000 hens laying you would notice that you are getting one to two percent less eggs less per day, but if you have 50 laying hens you may not notice the one to two percent drop at all.

 

[Texasmja]

I don't know if this picture is real. If it is, what breed is this rooster?