Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Marengoite]

While I have come to the realization that standard bred birds are something to strive for and commit to, I have also begun to try to understand how everyone who is serious about working on birds long term manages the paperwork end of it. How do you manage the business side of things? It's not the most fun part of it all but tracking expenses, setting budgets, goals, etc., is all a part of being able to maintain a productive long term relationship with your Heritage poultry, I would think. I can't seem to find any information on how people do it specific to raising poultry. Or is everyone just turning a blind eye. I've only had one suggestion: Quicken. But doesn't anyone run their "hobby" as a business? Doesn't anyone ever intend to break even or squeak a little profit, at least at some point? Oh, I get it. This is the next newbie phase! Expecting to make a little money!

So, can I hang around, or what?

Welcome to the fray.

First off: No. There is no money to be made in hobby poultry. If you keep track of your expenses against your receipts you'll get depressed and quit. There's a reason commercial poultry operations operate the way they do - the margins are razor thin and the only way to succeed is in volume. I'm in Ohio and drive past a commercial egg farm every week on the way to church. It's huge. Meanwhile, all around them are "Farm Fresh Egg" signs. And they're not huge. So the first thing to get out of your head is that there is any money to speak of in poultry. Why do you think so many people are raising beef cattle or hogs? And they're still poor farmers.

Now, with that out of the way, let's see if we can figure out how to make money in chickens. Two ways: Increase sales and Decrease expenses. Not hard, right? I would recommend starting with decreasing expenses. And I don't mean buying cheap feed because that will end up costing you in the long run. If you have a lot of chickens, you can buy bulk feed for savings, but then you get into storage issues. The trouble with hobby chickens is that it's a lot easier to spend a lot of money for little return on investment buying gadgets, doo-dads, and what have you. Figure out if you really, REALLY need it and then figure out if you can make it yourself cheaper from available materials lying around. I could go on about this for a long time, but suffice to say, if you are real tightwad about spending money on chickens, it helps.

The trouble is, sweat equity - the most common expense for chicken hobbyists - doesn't show up in a balance line in Quicken.

Now for the fun part - increasing sales. What are you selling? Eggs? Meat? Chicks? Hatching eggs? Started pullets?
Basically, the only way to make back your money is to do these in volume. And that involves work. Mostly in marketing. The government has set such high barriers to entry through regulatory compliance that unless you are going to operate on a commercial scale, it's more trouble to get into that you will ever recoup. I would suggest that if you want to make money in chickens and avoid regulatory burdens that you consider operating a hatchery. You won't get rich, but you might make back your feed bill. Sell eggs off the farm. Sell meat off the farm, or live birds.

Here's one arrangement. We have a former Amish lady that will process chickens for $1.00 skinned and cut up or $1.50 plucked and whole. If I were selling meaties, I'd tell my customers that they are buying live birds from me. I'll deliver them to the processor as a courtesy, but they will need to pick them up there. For a consideration, I'll pay the lady ahead of time for them, so all they have to do it pick up. This way, we don't break any laws. But the point is, you have to get creative if you're going to sell on a small scale. Otherwise, set up your farm for processing, get USDA inspected and have at it. But you better be prepared to handle the volume. And you might find that you make more money running a processing operation for friends and neighbors than you do with the poultry themselves. Have seen that happen too.

So, bottom line, there are lots of ways to make money in hobby chickens. There's just no way to make lots of money in hobby chickens. About the only way to make it pay is if you keep track of all your expenses and fill out Schedule C on your income tax showing a nice loss and you just might be able to keep some of what your rich Uncle Sam in Washington wants you to send him.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I read your post last night about making money with chickens. I have been at it this time for 20 years and loose about $1,000 a year. This year I may loose $200. I am getting smarter. Your in this for the love of the hobby. Heck I had a guy drive 600 miles down to my home from north Alabama to give me FREE five old fashion very rare Mottle Javas. They are from a old breeder who had them I guess 30 or more years. Most people thought this strain was long gone. I figured this moaning he must of spent at least $100 in gas coming and going to give me the birds. He gave me the birds as he knew I would keep them for him until he gets out of Afghanistan in his work as a Private contractor. I never saw a live Java in my life and I am no better off then you are I do have a standard but no pictures of Mottle Javas just blacks. I have a idea what I should be looking for but I am not going to worry about it I got to get eggs out of these old birds and hatch them. Then I got to do my very best not to do any thing foolish and loose one to carelessness like dogs or varmints. If I can get ten to twenty chicks out and find two good males and two good pullets I am ahead of the game. Then the next year I will do it over again. In three years I should have enough good birds to keep this old strain going and when my friend comes back from his job I will have his birds ready for him. Also, it was his wish to share this very old rare line and breed with new people. I have two people lined up that are Java hobbies. They will help me keep these old birds going and maybe in two or three years there will be five or six people who have them. Then we all will do what I call net working sharing with others and with in ourselves for fresh blood.

The secret is dont make it a job. Have fun and go and do this small scale. The feed bill will drive you nuts and like they said above you could get frustrated and give them up like so many people do. My long term goal with my breeds is no more than six birds per breed raise about 30 good chicks from the cream of the crop and keep my costs down.

I think I wrote a article on how to get started with Rhode Island Red large fowl it may be on my web site. Read it and take out Rhode Island Reds and add your favorite breed and it will work the same way. Also, do not pick the hardest colored breed in the world. These are for experienced breeders who have raised and hatched chickens for years. I just got off the phone with a guy in North Carolina who has production white rocks and wants my Standard Breed White Plymouth Rocks. He raised fighting cock chickens for over 20 years and has had production chickens for five years. This guy is about as good as raising chickens as any buddy is. All he needs is a picture of the White Rock male and female from my old 1962 Standard and he will fix this look into his brain and in two or three years he will have the finest strain of White Rocks in his region. A retired cock er is the best rookie student I ever tried to help.

Hope this helps you. Go Small, Go Slow and Go Down the Middle of the road in your program.

http://bloslspoutlryfarm.tripod.com/id67.html

Above is the article remember keep it simple.

 

[bnjrob]

First off: No. There is no money to be made in hobby poultry. If you keep track of your expenses against your receipts you'll get depressed and quit.

Ain't that the truth. I will say that the more money you invest in your chicken hobby, the more likely you will be to stick with it.

I've had people nearly croak that I spent good money on breeder birds instead of buying cheap chicks at the feed store. On the other hand, I've had some people not even flinch when they asked how much I might be selling birds for, once I had birds to sell, and they told me they wanted my contact info.

Now if I could just figure out an outlet for selling eggs, I could make a few dollars a week instead of giving away several dozen eggs for free every week.

 

[MagicChicken]

Now if I could just figure out an outlet for selling eggs, I could make a few dollars a week instead of giving away several dozen eggs for free every week.

I had been giving eggs to my neighbor (a good friend). My birds stopped laying for a while. When they started back up my neighbor gently told me she'd been paying the other neighbor $3/dozen for his eggs. It was a hint that it's ok to charge for them. I'm planning on taking the hint. Feed is expensive.

Sarah

 

[catdaddyfro]

Ain't that the truth. I will say that the more money you invest in your chicken hobby, the more likely you will be to stick with it.

I've had people nearly croak that I spent good money on breeder birds instead of buying cheap chicks at the feed store. On the other hand, I've had some people not even flinch when they asked how much I might be selling birds for, once I had birds to sell, and they told me they wanted my contact info.

Now if I could just figure out an outlet for selling eggs, I could make a few dollars a week instead of giving away several dozen eggs for free every week.

I hear ya, here I do squeeze a a buck fifty/doz out of very few folks around here nowhere near what they should be worth, the rest(older eggs) go to the dogs and I boil up a bunch when biddie raising time comes around, other than that its all for fun, as hobbies cost money, mine do anyhow LOL I used to do Hot-rodding for a hobby it was way more expensive(gasoline&parts) than feed is + more dangerous too and I'm a mechanic so I was always finding myself working/had the same job/hobby, bleck! chickens are "more funner" IMO

Jeff

 

[bnjrob]

I had been giving eggs to my neighbor (a good friend). My birds stopped laying for a while. When they started back up my neighbor gently told me she'd been paying the other neighbor $3/dozen for his eggs. It was a hint that it's ok to charge for them. I'm planning on taking the hint. Feed is expensive.

Sarah

That's nice of your neighbor. The people that have been getting our free eggs won't pay for them - I do know that. Have thought about putting an "honor" box out at the front gate and see if anyone would stop and buy some eggs that way, since we are on a road that is a major route for commuters driving into the city.

I hear ya, here I do squeeze a a buck fifty/doz out of very few folks around here nowhere near what they should be worth, the rest(older eggs) go to the dogs and I boil up a bunch when biddie raising time comes around, other than that its all for fun, as hobbies cost money, mine do anyhow LOL I used to do Hot-rodding for a hobby it was way more expensive(gasoline&parts) than feed is + more dangerous too and I'm a mechanic so I was always finding myself working/had the same job/hobby, bleck! chickens are "more funner" IMO

Yikes, that is an expensive hobby and would probably be more fun if it was just a hobby and not work too.

My hubby plays the bagpipes and that is expensive. Men's "skirts" and all the accessories that come with being a bagpiper don't come cheap!

 

[Deerfield Acres]

Thank you, everyone, for the welcome and your responses. I appreciate it very much.

I'm excited about your Mottled Javas, Bob. That fellow was lucky to have you to pass the birds to while he's away! I love the Speckled Sussex and have had some fun breeding my hatchery birds. I bet those are the complicated colors you're talking about. Yikes.

I was just writing and asking some of the very questions you answered for me, Bob. I'll read your article with the kids this week between their musical programs. I'm teaching 8 kids what you are teaching me. Who knows how many people they will teach? I've already taught them Beekissed's management methods and philosophies. We went from doing everything wrong, so they got to experience first hand what a difference it makes in caring for your birds. They got really excited when they saw the benefits of the fermented feed and using wood ashes for them to dust bathe in. My mom would have been proud!

I live within driving distance of Frank Reese -- isn't that something? I'll be picking up some Barred Plymouth Rocks from him this March/April.

Marengoite, we do everything the hard way (read cheap) around here.

Fermented feed, building things from pallets & scrap lumber. We enjoy the benefits of making our own, canning in season fruits, fixing everything ourselves, making all our cleaning products, etc. I have a background in real estate investing which I did with success. I'm not looking to make that kind of money but I think the business aspects and discipline could help us all to invest wiser, discipline our spending, and be better able to squeak out a little profit along the way. None of us do this for the money but I think many more of us would do it far longer if we had a financial road map to follow just like we have with those who teach us to care for and breed our birds. Good business principles would do that for us.

Think of it similarly to building the structure of the bird before focusing on color. The financial base isn't the glamorous aspect of raising our birds -- the color is the love of the hobby. We need to build the financial base so we have a healthy base from which to maintain our birds. By teaching others to view their hobby as a business, we will also teach others how to be able to keep birds for the long term.

I don't find anything on BYC that teaches us how to be successful. We have to be, in my humble opinion.

Okay, so I'm determined to figure this out. There were tons of failed real estate investors -- I wasn't one of them. Failure is a temporary state unless one quits. Then it's permanent. Failure is far more temporary than most people imagine and it's the best way to learn. So I'm not afraid to raise my expectations because I won't quit until I've figured out how to make it a success. Everyone told my husband and I we were too old to have children when we began building our family at 41 and 44 years old. We proved them wrong. I'm 55 this June and have an 8 year old. Not a great idea, most would say. But the kid has a loving home and we have the privilege of raising her and watching her become something most people would have bet against. This making a little money thing can't be unattainable for the newbies, if they can learn to succeed, I think.

 

[catdaddyfro]

That's nice of your neighbor. The people that have been getting our free eggs won't pay for them - I do know that. Have thought about putting an "honor" box out at the front gate and see if anyone would stop and buy some eggs that way, since we are on a road that is a major route for commuters driving into the city.
Yikes, that is an expensive hobby and would probably be more fun if it was just a hobby and not work too.

My hubby plays the bagpipes and that is expensive. Men's "skirts" and all the accessories that come with being a bagpiper don't come cheap!

Yes I have a few "family members" I guess thinks I owe them something as they wont buy eggs either but will take all I will give them, the suckers/leeches

Yes my pals don't understand why I don't have as much fun as they do hot-rodding they don't mechanic all week long, they move dirt and build roads,and I can't get them to have enough time on the weekends to use a "PIECE of EQUIPMENT" and dig me water line ditch out to my barn as they don't work their jobs on the weekends, same feeling for me with "their" dirt racing/hotrodding habit, LOL( what's good for the goose is good for the gander thingy here)

Yes I bet those pipes and stuff are expensive

Jeff

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Black berries are starting to blossom Spring in the South is around the corner. Turned on the incubator and hope to see some chicks in a three weeks. Then the work begins.

Thanks for the info on the Javas and Mottle. I think the reason they have more white is their age. The young chicks will be normal I am sure. Did you get any snow up there around the Yellow House?

I am so jealous I could spit!

!!!! St. Benedict wrote that we are to avoid the terrible sin of grumbling.......

Now, that I've vented about your blackberry blossoms, yes, I've just come in from my second day of shovelling

.


I think you're right. I think they're going to be just fine, because when I saw them, considering their age, they're still not all that overdone. If they were actually weak in color they'd have big splotches of white by this point.

So, I've been trying to locate a book Creative Poultry Breeding by Dr. Carefoot, a British poultry geneticist, of which I've read excerpts, and it seems awesome. However, it appears impossible to locate. In the second excerpt from the text I found, it just happened to be about mottling. Apparently, mottling is like spangling, meaning that in spangling there is a white tip followed by a black bar followed by the remainder of the feather. In Mottled birds, he white tip is followed by a black bar, which is followed by the rest of the feath, which happens to be black. However, he asserts that the main feath will have good green sheed, but that towards the end, approaching the bar of black, the green sheen will drop away, and the bar itself will have a bluish cast. This makes sense in my mind, but I've not checked it out yet, but I'll try to do it tonight. When my pullets have good bloom, there is such a richness to their coloring, which incidentally is fairly strong in our Anconas; there is, in my mind, something of a bluish cast. The green sheen in our Anconas is strong. I'm interest to see how discernible this might be.

 

[colburg]

So, I've been trying to locate a book Creative Poultry Breeding by Dr. Carefoot, a British poultry geneticist, of which I've read excerpts, and it seems awesome. However, it appears impossible to locate. In the second excerpt from the text I found, it just happened to be about mottling. Apparently, mottling is like spangling, meaning that in spangling there is a white tip followed by a black bar followed by the remainder of the feather. In Mottled birds, he white tip is followed by a black bar, which is followed by the rest of the feath, which happens to be black. However, he asserts that the main feath will have good green sheed, but that towards the end, approaching the bar of black, the green sheen will drop away, and the bar itself will have a bluish cast. This makes sense in my mind, but I've not checked it out yet, but I'll try to do it tonight. When my pullets have good bloom, there is such a richness to their coloring, which incidentally is fairly strong in our Anconas; there is, in my mind, something of a bluish cast. The green sheen in our Anconas is strong. I'm interest to see how discernible this might be.

I did some quick searching and all roads seemed to end here.

http://poultrykeeper.com/general-chickens/poultry-antiques-from-veronica-mayhew