Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

Amen brother! The Scale of points is there for a reason and has to be revived. I judged dogs for years and the comparison judging has ruined many dogs breeds! Many breeds are now totally unrelated to the breeds "genetically speaking " that they started out to be. So many infusions of different breeds to emphasize different points That they have completely banished true type and all quality to become some person's deflated picture of something that was beautiful and functional.

Few people want to talk about it...but the defining hallmark of the rough and smooth collie is their sagacity, regardless of their looks. I bred historic collies. Scary smart with great sagacity. Were they all show quality? A couple were. But overall, they could "do" when bidden.
I want my Sussex to be the same. The historic breed. Acceptably beautiful birds; bred to put on weight quickly; produce a goodly amount of eggs(esp. in the winter); with lots of fine, tender flesh for the table.
Best,
Karen

 

[thedragonlady]

Few people want to talk about it...but the defining hallmark of the rough and smooth collie is their sagacity, regardless of their looks. I bred historic collies. Scary smart with great sagacity. Were they all show quality? A couple were. But overall, they could "do" when bidden.
I want my Sussex to be the same. The historic breed. Acceptably beautiful birds; bred to put on weight quickly; produce a goodly amount of eggs(esp. in the winter); with lots of fine, tender flesh for the table.
Best,
Karen

Any Collie I see now a days that doesn't spin in it's ex-pen with it's ears on the top of it's head, and it's eyes rolling, is a plus.You can't live with those dogs, but they win. That 's what comes from making it a head breed with no brain. I had good collies from Jimmy Gray in Texas/Georgia.... Shadowhaven .Wonderful , biddable dogs, who would finish, and look after all the little critters.

I had a visitor who came down my drive today. He asked why all the big Buff Orps were around my feet. I told him that I was the flock leader, and the young ones wanted to be recognized by my attention. I reached down, and picked up 2 pullets. They purred. Blew the poor man's mind that chickens could be friendly, or have any sort of social network.

 

[3riverschick]

Any Collie I see now a days that doesn't spin in it's ex-pen with it's ears on the top of it's head, and it's eyes rolling, is a plus.You can't live with those dogs, but they win. That 's what comes from making it a head breed with no brain. I had good collies from Jimmy Gray in Texas/Georgia.... Shadowhaven .Wonderful , biddable dogs, who would finish, and look after all the little critters.

I had a visitor who came down my drive today. He asked why all the big Buff Orps were around my feet. I told him that I was the flock leader, and the young ones wanted to be recognized by my attention. I reached down, and picked up 2 pullets. They purred. Blew the poor man's mind that chickens could be friendly, or have any sort of social network.

Years ago, our first litter was sired by smooth sable Ch. Reignmaker Great Scott. A sire of guide dogs. He was descended from the Earlcrest collies of FL who tended a chicken ranch for their breeder. Earlcrest collies were especially noted for their tending of the chicks. Carefully keeping them from piling up and smothering each other. Pappy was my chicken herding collie. He did love his chickens. If they got out, he would carefully move them against the side of the run and "hold" them there until I could pick them up and put them away. He passed at 10 yrs. old in 'o5.
Best,
Karen

 

[Saved]

A Person after my own heart. The standard is the goal but by necessity unreachable . A bird or dog Must carry Type and MUST HAVE THE MENTAL QUALITIES FOR WHICH THEY ARE BRED.
Without either they cease to be what we chose to breed them for.

 

[thedragonlady]

A Person after my own heart. The standard is the goal but by necessity unreachable . A bird or dog Must carry Type and MUST HAVE THE MENTAL QUALITIES FOR WHICH THEY ARE BRED.
Without either they cease to be what we chose to breed them for.

When I showed Silkies I had a judge once who told me that he wished that Silkies showed more animation when being judged.I asked him what he thought Silkies were known for. Good setters, and mothers was the answer. I asked him if he really wanted an animated setting hen.The light dawned, as he envisioned scrambled eggs and tromped on chicks.

 

[Saved]

Great Answer! Show to the Standard no matter what the standard calls for!

 

[suncatcher]

Oops wrong area!

 

[Robert Blosl]

Amen brother! The Scale of points is there for a reason and has to be revived. I judged dogs for years and the comparison judging has ruined many dogs breeds! Many breeds are now totally unrelated to the breeds "genetically speaking " that they started out to be. So many infusions of different breeds to emphasize different points That they have completely banished true type and all quality to become some person's deflated picture of something that was beautiful and functional.

This is a interesting thought. Comparison judging may have ruined many breeds of dogs. How about chickens.

I got to run but here is one that goes down in my book as the best example of comparison judging and how it can go against the standard.

A leading breeder who we talk about on the Rhode Island Red tread put together a large district R I Red meet at a show in his region. There where about 100 Single Comb Rhode Island Red bantams there. He told me there where about 80 of the new modern day versions of Rhode Island Reds or what we call Red Rocks. That is they do not have flat top lines but short back that elevate like a new Hampshire or a Plymouth rock. There was however three exhibitors who had the old fashion dark, brick shaped flat back red bantams.

After the judging was over the top and second best Rhode Island Red bantam was a hen and a pullet who looked in the Poultry Press like New Hampshire's with a dark exposure. I did not even recognize the birds as red bantams which I have been breeding for 20 years.

I asked him what happen. He said it looks like the judge breed on the curve like grading school test papers. The majority of the chickens looked like New Hampshire's so he went with the best of that trend that was showed at this show.

Non the less this was not a judging class by the standard but by this judge who thinks that is what a Red Bantam should look like. The bantams that won where culls. Not even worthy of 92 point scores.

 

[lildinkem]

This is a interesting thought. Comparison judging may have ruined many breeds of dogs.

Bob, I have trained with two time USA Schutzhund Champion Mike Diehl. Those Schutzhund people hate AKC folks for watering down the traits that breeders have pullled out from their dogs. That is why most all police depts here in the states have to import their dogs. It wasn't until Mike and the club found out my AKC GSD looking dogs were from an old timer (Jim Herald) who was in the Army as WWll was ending. The Germans as they retreated left behind some very hungry and mean GSD's to slow down the allies as they march onto Berlin. Nothing was more fun then to turn loose my 90 lbs German Shep Yertle onto Mike and Nate during the "protection" part of Schutzhund. Mike said "Jim Herald had the meanest dogs he ever worked with". It was nice to know that not all of the GSD breeders here in that states have ruined Max Von Steffanitz's original goal to make an all purpose dog. He greatly admired those dogs with a wolf-ish appearance and prick ears who also were intelligent, had sharp senses and willingness to work and believed that he could create a better working dog that could then be used throughout Germany. To bad not all breeders in both dogs and chickens would want to make a dual purpose animals like Max.

 

[fowlman01]

A Person after my own heart. The standard is the goal but by necessity unreachable . A bird or dog Must carry Type and MUST HAVE THE MENTAL QUALITIES FOR WHICH THEY ARE BRED.
Without either they cease to be what we chose to breed them for.

Agreed..although I am not sure that chickens have much to do with mental capacity...lol

The Standard should be unattainable......there are just too many things to make perfect all at once. If a chicken is known for egg laying it should be able to lay eggs at a good rate. People assume that if a chicken is shown it is just a pretty bird. That is the case with some exhibitors, but a real breeder will have form and function. There is no benefit to have an animal that can't perform its intended job. The APA/ABA Standards are much more detailed than Standards that I have seen for other animals...and in fact far more detailed than most other countries poultry Standards. I was shocked by how loosey goosey the British Standard is in it's descriptions.

All of our Corgi's do well in the herding instinct test because that is all I care about with them. They are not pretty when they do it, but they get the job done. Most of ours are way to heavy handed on sheep, which I like because they are not sheep herders, they are cattle herders. If an animal that they are herding puts it's head down and my dog backs up, they are out of here. The wife does the conformation thing, I do the herding thing. We don't always agree......ahahah.

Walt