Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[fowlman01]

So well said Walt..

The old books are wonderful, gives insight into what the early foundation breeders were thinking, their early creations, what directions they were going..in my opinion a worthwhile read...but you wouldnt want to use some of the remedies of the day such as arsinic and other extreamly toxic treatments of the day..

I would like to add to that when clubs devide into warring factions, it is extreamly rough on new people trying to get involved in a breed..if they buy a bird unknowingly from a person then try to join a club for help and advise , suddenly thrown into a tornado of bickering and petty disputes it gets discouraging real quick..I have had 3 people get in and right back out due to the imaginary line drawn in the sand and people being assigned a side in these sad disputes...its not good for the breed..some of the breeds are already in a state of disrepair to the point where breeds are being added that shouldnt be ...but people get so lost in this bickering that they cant see what they are doing, and blinded to the point that if you try to tell them they cant hear you..Its OK and I stress OK to have a difference of opinion..it should never degrade into these sham wars..somone needs to be the grown up in the group and moderator..sadly that seldom happens.

What I would like to see is top breeders of today do updated poultry and breeding books with insight of today ..people turn to those old books because sometimes experts close down and wont help and the ones who do it gets lost in the blizzard of info on the internet.. especially APA and ABA..maybe they could corner a few top people to write ..when you go to book store or even tractor supply, there are pultry books avail..sadly they are not well written,you leave with more questions than answers...one of those books thou written just a few years ago also gives bad advise..it says to cut the feathers around the comb to give the neat appearance befor a show..I always thought you were to not cut a feather ..but because that book said so people swear by it....a few top breeders have written like Ray connor..experts and beginners alike can take away from his book..but you felt like you wanted even more...we have lost the art of poultry keeping and trying to re learn everything that was common knowlege at the turn of the century.

Unfortunately there are very few books about breeding that are fairly current. The best way to learn breeding is to find an old person raising your breed and pick their mind. Sometimes it is not easy to find one. It is not easy to get us old timers to write things down as we don't usually have the time to do it. Another way....and I think you are already doing this....is to talk to people at shows and learn what you can. Lots of the "advice" online is not very good or completely incorrect.

Two fairly recent works are Ralph Sturgeons Plymouth Rock book and the Sebright book by Bill Holland. Even if they are not about your breed, they have general advice on breeding. Anything by Fred Jeffrey is outstanding and should be read. It is about bantams, but that info can be used with large fowl. He was a poultry genius and passed about 15 years ago.

Walt

 

[thedragonlady]

Unfortunately there are very few books about breeding that are fairly current. The best way to learn breeding is to find an old person raising your breed and pick their mind. Sometimes it is not easy to find one. It is not easy to get us old timers to write things down as we don't usually have the time to do it. Another way....and I think you are already doing this....is to talk to people at shows and learn what you can. Lots of the "advice" online is not very good or completely incorrect.

Two fairly recent works are Ralph Sturgeons Plymouth Rock book and the Sebright book by Bill Holland. Even if they are not about your breed, they have general advice on breeding. Anything by Fred Jeffrey is outstanding and should be read. It is about bantams, but that info can be used with large fowl. He was a poultry genius and passed about 15 years ago.

Walt

I'll second that Walt . Anything written by Fred Jeffrey, you can take his advice to the bank. He was a wonderful scholarly gent, the last of the Victorians in manner. I still have notes on coop tags taken when I was talking to him at shows .

 

[fowlman01]

This is absolutely true. A blue-bred black cannot compete with a black. That green sheen is just not there. I wouldn't say they don't look right, they're just not green. I do have one cockerel from last year, I guess he's a cock now, but he is a black. His parents were both black (I was trying to get some black stock to help a friend out) and both had blue in their back ground. Anyway, this black Andalusian actually shines green. When he grew up and I saw this, I couldn't believe it! Normally, a blue-bred black will shine white... not that he has white in his feathers any more than he has green feathers, but the shine is generally white. Maybe they cannot compete with other blacks but is this the reason they are not accepted? That should not be. There are plenty of other breeds out there that have identical varieties that are accepted. Does the APA decide that a blue-bred black cannot compete with a regular black and therefore it is not an accepted variety? How about Pencilled rocks? They can't compete with say a pencilled hamburg... yet they are recognized. Sumatras... blue, black and splash are all recognized. Orpingtons... Jersey Giants... not sure on the giants, if they come in a splash variety. Anyway, there are plenty of breeds that do. Why can an Andalusian not be recognized if it is splashed? I have some of the most beautiful splashes and I would LOVE to take them to a show. I won't do it though as I'm not willing to stress my birds for "Best of Variety" or worse yet, "Foreign Color"

I've said it before and there are probably several people who disagree, but in my opinion, the APA's non-recognition of black and splash varieties in Andalusian fowl is a strong contributor to their decline in numbers as it takes all three varieties to get the color right. You have to raise 3 times as many birds to get one variety to show. Interest has come up for the Andalusian but I'm afraid it is too late as x amount of exhibitors have to have raised them for x number of years before you can submit them for approval. I don't believe these guidelines are a bad thing at all. However, there have been birds (at least one) admitted to the standard which have never existed... the bantam rose combed rhode island white.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think that black is a by-product of blue. I'm pretty sure its the other way around. Non-dominant black combines with splash (non-dominant white?) to make blue.

I'm sure the genetics gurus on here will point out my error if I'm wrong. My hat is off to you guys so let's hear it. Is black a by-product or is blue the by-product?

As I have said. ........the only reason some of these varieties are not in the Standards is that no one wanted to do the work to get them in. If they are from an accepted breed or a breed recognized by the ABA it is not much of a problem. Our committee does not decide this, we only put together our findings and the APA/ABA Board of Directors decides. Splash is now not a problem either, but but a black/splash Andulusian would have to go through the process like it was a new variety, so it would require a qualifying meet. This is because there is only one variety recognized now and the ABA does not recognized those two other varieties even though the black and blue are by products of the blue.. There are reasons why some of this stuff was never done and as I said in another post.....most of it was because no one wanted to spend the money to do it. At one time the ABA recognized almost everything and because of that has several inactive breeds to carry around in their publications. none of them still exist. The APA has some as well. (black crested white Polish, Cuckoo Dorkings etc.) I don't want things in the SOP to be changed easily or to admit anything without some idea that it is going to be around for some time.
If the SOP can be changed easily, why have Standards? Research and documentation need to occur.

if someone wants to do the work I can't think of any breed/variety offhand that can't be put in the Standards. The black or Splash Andulusian will never be automatically put in the SOP, but they could be put in if someone wants to do the work. I have to do a little research for BGMATT as the ABA recognition procedure for the birds recognized by the ABA does not seem to be in the yearbook. It is brand new procedure, so I guess that is why.

Walt

 

[aveca]

Thanks Vickie and Walt..Too bad their arnt more seasoned poultry people to help out...but like I said...it was almost a lost art..now , new people running around saying what am I supposed to do? im an expert in nothing..but had a neighbor call, thier baby chickens were roosting in trees instead of going in thier house..I had to go down and help her train them inside with a light to thier safe place..told her they wont last long out there with the owls , possums ect will get them..finnaly they are going in now ..

Vickie will just haul off and say now do this..and I think, jees that was simple..but I wasnt smart enough to think of it for myself..

we live in a time when we are all too busy..so I understand the no time to write...things were a bit more leasurly long time ago...all they had to do was worry about poultry..now we rush here and there and exhausted by the time we get home, thou Im lucky because I can work at home right now..gives me a more time..were still slaves to the corporate world..nostradamus wrote a quatrain that said...." through new laws , all of liberty, they shall find themselves enslaved even more profoundly"....indeed! insurance cos, gas cos, mortgage, car repairs, seems like you work to hand it all out..little or nothing left at the end..

 

[fowlman01]

Thanks Vickie and Walt..Too bad their arnt more seasoned poultry people to help out...but like I said...it was almost a lost art..now , new people running around saying what am I supposed to do? im an expert in nothing..but had a neighbor call, thier baby chickens were roosting in trees instead of going in thier house..I had to go down and help her train them inside with a light to thier safe place..told her they wont last long out there with the owls , possums ect will get them..finnaly they are going in now ..

Vickie will just haul off and say now do this..and I think, jees that was simple..but I wasnt smart enough to think of it for myself..

we live in a time when we are all too busy..so I understand the no time to write...things were a bit more leasurly long time ago...all they had to do was worry about poultry..now we rush here and there and exhausted by the time we get home, thou Im lucky because I can work at home right now..gives me a more time..were still slaves to the corporate world..nostradamus wrote a quatrain that said...." through new laws , all of liberty, they shall find themselves enslaved even more profoundly"....indeed! insurance cos, gas cos, mortgage, car repairs, seems like you work to hand it all out..little or nothing left at the end..

I'm retired and I have less time than when I was working. These computers suck up a lot of everyones time. Back in the day there was no TV, computers, web etc to gobble up time. The first time I got on a computer (1989) I was amazed how quickly the time went by. I used to enjoy writing, but I just don't have the time. Posting my perspective on poultry is the best I can do. I part time mentor about 5 people here and two in person, and that is not counting the 4H kids. If I could unplug all the electrical things here I might have some time. I haven't had time to race my car and the season started in early March. I will probably take it out tomorrow just to get used to it again.

Most people just don't have time these days. When I watch what some of these mom's do it just amazes me! They are just like machines......ahahaha

Walt

 

[lildinkem]

For those who like old poultry books. Dan Honour has some for sale. I have bought 5 books from him. I knew he use to have over a 1,000 in his collection.

 

[Robert Blosl]

What color patterns are you looking for? There are some good current articles in many computers that can be shared. In regards to Plymouth Rocks all the colors have been written by good breeders in the past six years.

There was a big interest in Blue Rock Large Fowl and people wanting to start this color pattern. We had a very difficult time finding any good strains out there and most of them are getting four different colors anyway.

I think if they and the Black Plymouth Rocks where admitted to the standard in 20 years they would be just as rare as todays Silver Penciled and Partridge. It just cost to much to build up a strain I mean time and money and they can not compete with the Whites at the shows. It would have to be a personnel project.

There are so many breeds needing help with out trying to get new colors or breeds into the standard.

I often think most of the request I get for very rare breeds is mainly from the painted pictures that people see in the Standards or the Catalogs.

They look so pretty they tell me but there are none available from good breeders. The hatcheries sell want a be birds but that's about as far as I can see many breeds that are so rare today.

 

[cbnovick]

What color patterns are you looking for? There are some good current articles in many computers that can be shared. In regards to Plymouth Rocks all the colors have been written by good breeders in the past six years.

There was a big interest in Blue Rock Large Fowl and people wanting to start this color pattern. We had a very difficult time finding any good strains out there and most of them are getting four different colors anyway.

I think if they and the Black Plymouth Rocks where admitted to the standard in 20 years they would be just as rare as todays Silver Penciled and Partridge. It just cost to much to build up a strain I mean time and money and they can not compete with the Whites at the shows. It would have to be a personnel project.

There are so many breeds needing help with out trying to get new colors or breeds into the standard.

I often think most of the request I get for very rare breeds is mainly from the painted pictures that people see in the Standards or the Catalogs.

They look so pretty they tell me but there are none available from good breeders. The hatcheries sell want a be birds but that's about as far as I can see many breeds that are so rare today.

"There are so many breeds needing help with out trying to get new colors or breeds into the standard."
----------- Blosl

The truth...and nothing but the truth!!!

 

[armorfirelady]

I have a newbie question. I just got 2 BCM babies. They have their feathers in. One has a white feather on her wing you can't see unless she stretches it out. The other one has white feathers underneath as well and you can see them from her backside. They have copper feathers in their neck and one has a blue sheen and the other green. They both have feathered legs/feet.

Are they suppose to have the white feathers? I am thinking they will lose them when they mount when older?

Not the best pics but it shows you both pullets and their white feathers. These babies are always on the move

 

[aveca]

I'm retired and I have less time than when I was working. These computers suck up a lot of everyones time. Back in the day there was no TV, computers, web etc to gobble up time. The first time I got on a computer (1989) I was amazed how quickly the time went by. I used to enjoy writing, but I just don't have the time. Posting my perspective on poultry is the best I can do. I part time mentor about 5 people here and two in person, and that is not counting the 4H kids. If I could unplug all the electrical things here I might have some time. I haven't had time to race my car and the season started in early March. I will probably take it out tomorrow just to get used to it again.

Most people just don't have time these days. When I watch what some of these mom's do it just amazes me! They are just like machines......ahahaha

Walt

Pastor Romig said same thing..hes running all of the time.he said he thought at this point things were supposed to slow down for him..but hes busier than ever..and he doesnt know how to turn a computer on...I said...Oh your better off not going on there..people can get mean..they say things that they would never say to your face...he asked me to come down and take some pics to email for him..I told him any time....he had some people that were very pleased with him and his judging of a bantam show somewhere, so they gifted him some japanese bantam show birds..he graciously took the birds but called me and said , Lynne, I just have project of my own going on and I cant keep these fantastic birds...he offered to bring them up...I said , Pastor, Im in same boat..Im kind of streached ..and want to keep a healthy space per bird and right now things are good...felt bad, I had to turn them down....he came up to give me some advise..cant thank him enough..man he knows chickens..every square inch, can spot flaws and good things a mile away...he doesnt candy coat things either..nicest man to help like that..bought him breakfast..wish we had a hundred more like him and you and Vickie and bob and the other great people in heritage thread..