Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[cluck-cluck]

I agree with everything everyone else said, but all fads do crash, so don't be upset when this one does As for me, I hang out here because you old timers really teach us a lot! Thank you all so much!

Now, If any of you actually know someone who raises SOP Crevecoeurs who isn't Duane Urch or exop (whom I'm already hoping to get stock from). Please speak up! You can possibly save me 10 years, LOL

As for me, I freely admit I chose to try out the Crevecoeur because of its goth beauty and because my ancestors come from that part of the world. Also, the idea that these exotic beauties can be dual purpose is amazing to me!. I really didn't expect to fall hard for them, heck, I never expected to be so charmed by chickens at all!

So, as of today, I've only gotten hatchery chicks, nothing from a breeder and I plan on an out-crossing to a dorking to correct size and shape. At least with what I've seen so far, I just don't see progress in size any other way without spending 100 years selective breeding for size, and I don't have that kind of time, LOL.. These birds are seriously under sized!. And often, their legs are too long. I've made a plan, and I hope it works

If, when the fad ends, you feel bad' don't! Because you will undoubtedly have created more hard core chicken fanciers and will have given the breeds of our heritage a boost that will hopefully keep them going another 50 years. Job well done, I'd say!

Now, if anyone is willing to talk about their experiences out-crossing to improve a breed, I'd love to hear about your experience? I know it's almost a taboo subject to some people?

 

[fowlman01]

Same here. Lots of research and study on my chosen breed. Then flew in my trio of started Sussex birds from Montana to western PA.
One thing I did learn from studying. Because of all the sex-linked genes in poultry, it is much harder to set a plethora
of virtues in a strain at the same time. This is why it is so important to get the genes from a veteran line-bred strain
close up in one's foundation stocks' pedigree. It can take a decade or more to bring hatchery stock up to an level of quality which might compare. It is also why one does not cross strains to found a flock unless lack of numbers in the breed force it.
Best,
Karen

Do you think it is harder than breeding dogs yet???

w.

 

[fowlman01]

I agree with everything everyone else said, but all fads do crash, so don't be upset when this one does

As for me, I hang out here because you old timers really teach us a lot! Thank you all so much!

Now, If any of you actually know someone who raises SOP Crevecoeurs who isn't Duane Urch or exop (whom I'm already hoping to get stock from). Please speak up! You can possibly save me 10 years, LOL

As for me, I freely admit I chose to try out the Crevecoeur because of its goth beauty and because my ancestors come from that part of the world. Also, the idea that these exotic beauties can be dual purpose is amazing to me!. I really didn't expect to fall hard for them, heck, I never expected to be so charmed by chickens at all!

So, as of today, I've only gotten hatchery chicks, nothing from a breeder and I plan on an out-crossing to a dorking to correct size and shape. At least with what I've seen so far, I just don't see progress in size any other way without spending 100 years selective breeding for size, and I don't have that kind of time, LOL.. These birds are seriously under sized!. And often, their legs are too long. I've made a plan, and I hope it works

If, when the fad ends, you feel bad' don't! Because you will undoubtedly have created more hard core chicken fanciers and will have given the breeds of our heritage a boost that will hopefully keep them going another 50 years. Job well done, I'd say!

Now, if anyone is willing to talk about their experiences out-crossing to improve a breed, I'd love to hear about your experience? I know it's almost a taboo subject to some people?

If I was buying a Crevecoeur, I would buy it from Urch. Out crossing is not taboo ot me, I just don't do it. I have enough problems without adding more unknowns. Sometimes people have to do it and it seems to work for some folks, it is just not something I want to do. If I lost my last male, sure I might do it.

People arrive at their destinations in many ways. It is one of those poultry things that works for some but not all.

Walt

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Sure you can. You just need a friend who can keep the roosters. Someone who would like the Heritage breed you choose, but just wants them for eggs. Let them keep the roosters so they ill have fertile eggs. Folk like fertile eggs. Then once a year bring your girls on over to them and let the rosters service them for several days. Take them back home and they should be fertile by them for 10 days to 3 weeks. You can just incubate the eggs, and raise the chicks up to crowing age. Then sell or give the roos way via Craigslist. and keep the girls. Offer your friend roos and hen to expand their flock. Esp. if they want the birds but don't want to raise them, themselves.
Best,
Karen

 

[cbnovick]

I found some Friends to keep Cock Birds for me and I am hatching eggs to help a Breeding Program for SG Dorkings.

Even though I live in a City that only allows Hens, I am helping in my own little way.

"Where there's a will, there's a way"

Currently,I am not located on an acreage either.
However, we do live on a half acre lot, and we are zoned for chickens and horses...my 'foo foo' neighbors would rebel if I were to keep males (crowing issue), so I have arranged with a dear friend who keeps layers in a nearby area (15 minute drive) to keep a few males for me this year. I trust her and she practices excellent husbandry skills...she will get an extra bag of premium feed and mealworms for her flock each month in exchange.

 

[3riverschick]

Do you think it is harder than breeding dogs yet???

w.

Way harder. It doesn't even compare and I out-crossed three strains of collies to found my kennel.
That took years of work but at least I didn't have all these sex-linked genes and regulations on
plumage patterns to contend with!

Best,
Karen

 

[Fred's Hens]

We have three farms, with all the roosters we need, so having roosters isn't all there is to taking part in enjoying the preservation of fine birds. We already work in partnership. We coordinate between us who will be doing what. It helps the greater good, coordinates the available facilities and spreads out the work load. Spreads the DNA around too for safety.

Still, during breeding and hatching season, i'd welcome a nearby "city" partner. Someone who'd do a bunch of the hatching, brooding and rearing the chicks out to say 8-10 weeks. They could feel free to come on out every other Saturday morning and clean the stalls and sterilize the waterers, wood to split and haul, weeds to pull, etc. There's always work to do out here.

I think we could make this work.

 

[cbnovick]

"Where there's a will, there's a way"

Currently,I am not located on an acreage either.
However, we do live on a half acre lot, and we are zoned for chickens and horses...my 'foo foo' neighbors would rebel if I were to keep males (crowing issue), so I have arranged with a dear friend who keeps layers in a nearby area (15 minute drive) to keep a few males for me this year. I trust her and she practices excellent husbandry skills...she will get an extra bag of premium feed and mealworms for her flock each month in exchange.

Forgot to add that some may be hesitant or opposed to 'boarding' a male for 'biosecurity' reasons. I have either hatched or acquired chicks for all my stock...so, I can attest more fully as to their health and exposure risk...flipside of that is what is the health/exposure status of where one will 'board' their male(s)? All things to consider....
personally, I don't get as worked up about 'bio security' as I used to...realizing that really exposure to parasites and disease is ubiquitous in most suburban/rural areas...simply part of the game that we can try to limit but really not control 100% anyway. Wild birds and bugs carry and spread the risk more than domesticated birds I imagine... Risk is inherent in any breeding/husbandry environment, no matter the livestock...even as humans we do our best, but all in all it's a daily crap shoot whether we get an illness/virus etc. etc....limit exposure when feasible...hope for the best and maintain a healthy immune system...don't worry beyond that. Being a 3 year cancer survivor at only 46 has taught me that random things can and will happen from time to time

 

[CoopDeDoo]

We have three farms, with all the roosters we need, so having roosters isn't all there is to taking part in enjoying the preservation of fine birds. We already work in partnership. We coordinate between us who will be doing what. It helps the greater good, coordinates the available facilities and spreads out the work load. Spreads the DNA around too for safety.

Still, during breeding and hatching season, i'd welcome a nearby "city" partner. Someone who'd do a bunch of the hatching, brooding and rearing the chicks out to say 8-10 weeks. They could feel free to come on out every other Saturday morning and clean the stalls and sterilize the waterers, wood to split and haul, weeds to pull, etc. There's always work to do out here.

I think we could make this work.

I am actually "way up north" in the 48th parallel so that my be it bit far to come over on the weekends

It is good to know that people are willing to work these kind of things out. Gives me some good ideas for next Spring.

Sure you can. You just need a friend who can keep the roosters. Someone who would like the Heritage breed you choose, but just wants them for eggs. Let them keep the roosters so they ill have fertile eggs. Folk like fertile eggs. Then once a year bring your girls on over to them and let the rosters service them for several days. Take them back home and they should be fertile by them for 10 days to 3 weeks. You can just incubate the eggs, and raise the chicks up to crowing age. Then sell or give the roos way via Craigslist. and keep the girls. Offer your friend roos and hen to expand their flock. Esp. if they want the birds but don't want to raise them, themselves.
Best,
Karen

I did put "incubator" on my Christmas list with suggestion on which type

My GD wants to join 4-H in the fall and I volunteered to be the one to take her to the mtgs and help with projects so I am hoping to meet some local chicken folks and I will be attanding the local and regional fair this year. I only know one other non-city person who keeps chickens - my old boss. His appraoch is just let them range for all their all needs and he has substanial losses every year from predators. He doesn't maintain a coop - if they make it back to the barn at night so be it. Not judging him for that but I don't think I would want to board a rooster with him

 

[BGMatt]

"In some cases some of you are sticking with your poultry better than beginners who show their birds."

That's because we have a broader interest in the bird. The history, culture and especially the original agricultural purpose of the animal as that relates to today's emerging new focus on sustainable practices and local food. What goes around comes around. In some ways we are headed back to the 19th century. Omnivores Dilemma is a great book if you have not read it.

I have not made the switch yet, but I plan to. I was hopeing that the stock from Sand Hill Preservation Center would be good enough. That remains to be seen. "Standard Bred" is not a term that is used in the literature most beginners are reading. "Heritage" and "dual purpose" are, especially dual purpose. Of course, the chickens I got from the hatchery last year are just layers. There are specific warnings out there, not to buy from a breeders who breeds just for show. I think these warnings can be well founded for the person who wants an agricultural bird.

Mark

Yet the definition for Heritage includes mention of being bred to the Standard. And with folks warning newcomers away from us "show breeders", no wonder so few good breeders hang around here. Let the backyard fad people come and go, let the blind lead the blind as is always going on and that recent article talks about. True poultrymen will always be around, and you'll find them where you always have, in the showrooms.

Seriously, if stock is not shown, then you have no objective feedback on if your birds are a good representation of their breed. And without the standard, and being bred to it, regardless of production qualities its just a mutt. There's a reason they call for the standard in the Heritage definition.

By the way, any true breeder doesn't ignore production values, because shockingly, that's what form is required for the show ring too. And if they don't lay at least decent, then you're not hatching many to select from and not improving your quality.

Telling folks to avoid standard bred or "show bred" birds is a terrible disservice to folks, and a slap in the face to people that put in a lot of time, money, and hard work into their fowl. It keeps newcomers from learning from old timers that might actually know something, forcing them to seek info from folks that barely know more than they do. It's an incredibly offensive and ignorant statement to make.