Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[catdaddyfro]

There is eight feather colors on the NH, and an under color.

redish bay
golden bay
deep chestnut red
brilliant deep chestnut red
medium chestnut red
black
red
medium red
light salmon

Four other than feather colors.

red
reddish horn
reddish bay
yellow

The main color of the NH, obviously, is chestnut red in varying shades. Chestnut red is described as a dark-red brown plumage color in the Standard glossary. Notice the word(s) dark, and red-brown.
The Standard seams full of old agricultural color descriptions. A lot of people today have not seen a chestnut. Chestnut trees used to be common. If you googled chestnuts, you will find there is a natural variation from nut to nut and from tree to tree. Overall the average color is pretty clear, and it is not a particularly light color.
It is my opinion that the color in the Standard picture is too light. The explanation has been that the NH is a meat bird and should be a lighter color. I disagree on this point, because the Standard differentiates between the especially light meat strain NHs and the Standard dual purpose NH. I am also of the opinion that how a bird dresses out is as much about the under color as the outer color. The under color being a light salmon, they dress out relatively clean.
The conclusion that I have come to is that one side has swung one way, and the other swung the other way. I hope to "brighten" up my NHs a bit, but have no intentions of trying to go as far as the Standard picture. If that will not be in keeping with what many judges have come to understand as correct, then so be it. My efforts will be as I see it.
The debate on the NH color is not new. I have seen literature discussing/debating this before. This is not the first German import either. Seams some were floating around sometime in the 80s. I think that is also noteworthy that this debate has been had in Europe as well. There is more than one side on this issue in Germany.
To me it is easier to follow my interpretation of the Standard description, instead of the picture or accepted opinions. From there I have come to my own conclusions. I do like the Schilling print however.

What I have found with these birds from Germany is that they have been well bred. They are quite remarkable birds. To be as finely bred as they are, the hatch ability and livability is solid. The lay rate is pretty good etc. Easy to manage, and gorgeous to see on range. My opinion is that they are the best we have. I thought it was interesting to see them dismissed by the NH people here. Even if someone does not like the color, there is more to them than color. That is the last thing I look at, when I look at a bird. Maybe it is a guy thing, but thankfully there is more to a bird than color. Especially when you start debating shades of color.

If you notice too "they" (the NH people) didn't tarry too long here(on the subject) when asked about the colors(correct colors) and how to go about getting what they had established the correct colors to be? Never seen nor heard of them since then. "They" must have realized; 'man I have fell right into the middle of a bunch of dunces or bumbling idiots' LOL < though I'm not insinuating any here are>J/S

Jeff

 

[fowlman01]

There is eight feather colors on the NH, and an under color.

redish bay
golden bay
deep chestnut red
brilliant deep chestnut red
medium chestnut red
black
red
medium red
light salmon

Four other than feather colors.

red
reddish horn
reddish bay
yellow

The main color of the NH, obviously, is chestnut red in varying shades. Chestnut red is described as a dark-red brown plumage color in the Standard glossary. Notice the word(s) dark, and red-brown.
The Standard seams full of old agricultural color descriptions. A lot of people today have not seen a chestnut. Chestnut trees used to be common. If you googled chestnuts, you will find there is a natural variation from nut to nut and from tree to tree. Overall the average color is pretty clear, and it is not a particularly light color.
It is my opinion that the color in the Standard picture is too light. The explanation has been that the NH is a meat bird and should be a lighter color. I disagree on this point, because the Standard differentiates between the especially light meat strain NHs and the Standard dual purpose NH. I am also of the opinion that how a bird dresses out is as much about the under color as the outer color. The under color being a light salmon, they dress out relatively clean.
The conclusion that I have come to is that one side has swung one way, and the other swung the other way. I hope to "brighten" up my NHs a bit, but have no intentions of trying to go as far as the Standard picture. If that will not be in keeping with what many judges have come to understand as correct, then so be it. My efforts will be as I see it.
The debate on the NH color is not new. I have seen literature discussing/debating this before. This is not the first German import either. Seams some were floating around sometime in the 80s. I think that is also noteworthy that this debate has been had in Europe as well. There is more than one side on this issue in Germany.
To me it is easier to follow my interpretation of the Standard description, instead of the picture or accepted opinions. From there I have come to my own conclusions. I do like the Schilling print however.

What I have found with these birds from Germany is that they have been well bred. They are quite remarkable birds. To be as finely bred as they are, the hatch ability and livability is solid. The lay rate is pretty good etc. Easy to manage, and gorgeous to see on range. My opinion is that they are the best we have. I thought it was interesting to see them dismissed by the NH people here. Even if someone does not like the color, there is more to them than color. That is the last thing I look at, when I look at a bird. Maybe it is a guy thing, but thankfully there is more to a bird than color. Especially when you start debating shades of color.

Chestnut is used in several varities as the description and I'm not sure I would have used that to describe anything. The New Hamps in the 70's and 80's out here in the West were solid birds in type and color. Then.....they went away for some reason. I have males and females here that I feel look too brown, but they will be going and the rest look to be very close to what I perceive as the correct color and as I remember it from the "old days".

The APA Standard says to not use the illustrations as the color for the varieties. It is just in the range, so to speak. There is no way to get chicken colors exact in the printing process.

Color is the last thing to consider.....as you know.

Walt

 

[catdaddyfro]

Chestnut is used in several varities as the description and I'm not sure I would have used that to describe anything. The New Hamps in the 70's and 80's out here in the West were solid birds in type and color. Then.....they went away for some reason. I have males and females here that I feel look too brown, but they will be going and the rest look to be very close to what I perceive as the correct color and as I remember it from the "old days".

The APA Standard says to not use the illustrations as the color for the varieties. It is just in the range, so to speak. There is no way to get chicken colors exact in the printing process.

Color is the last thing to consider.....as you know.

Walt

Yes but I think through human nature it is the first thing discriminated against if not on par though, HUH? human nature at its best?

Is it not the first thing one/or most sees?

Jeff

 

[fowlman01]

Yes but I think through human nature it is the first thing discriminated against if not on par though, HUH? human nature at its best?

Is it not the first thing one/or most sees?

Jeff

You are correct. Some judges get hung up on these little things at the expense of the whole bird. Other judges don't have the courage to put up a bird with a 1/2-1 point cut because the exhibitors will see it from outside of the cage and run them down for their selection. It is all human nature.

w.

 

[neftaball]

Just a thought about the color chestnut, it might be from the horse colors that this term came from. SOP also uses bay to describe colors.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I wanted to post these to pictures together to compare color. Trying to locate matts 1616 male but my eyes are playing tricks on me this am so will look latter. This will give us a good comparison to the old USA and the New German color and then the Standard of Perfection Picture from the APA Standard. Bob

 

[catdaddyfro]

Here ya go Bob and yes a "primo example" of a German type NH
he(Matt) done good with this one as most of his birds show.

Jeff

 

[cbnovick]

Here's yet another example to compare....AWESOME Jwhip 'german' male...sired the male I hatched from jwhip's "half and half" cross eggs this year (he's shown in previous post to Matt1616's.)

 

[cbnovick]

I wanted to post these to pictures together to compare color. Trying to locate matts 1616 male but my eyes are playing tricks on me this am so will look latter. This will give us a good comparison to the old USA and the New German color and then the Standard of Perfection Picture from the APA Standard. Bob

This cockerel hatched Feb 21, 2013...here's hoping those tail feathers will go all black with adult plumage

 

[catdaddyfro]

Here's yet another example to compare....AWESOME Jwhip 'german' male...sired the male I hatched from jwhip's "half and half" cross eggs this year (he's shown in previous post to Matt1616's.)

Yes this too is an example to that should be right here too this male is from Kathyinmos stock she bred up from breeder stock that she got from Doug Akers. She received pure German types and some that were half and half bred already. I'd 'bout venture to say that looking at the color of this male(with what one can compare on a computer screen) compared to the more diluted colors of Matt(pure German)male that J-whips breeder male has a little bit(1/4 maybe 1/8 maybe 5/8ths? American NH blood instilled already (who knows?) maybe Mrs. Kathy but more than likely not unless a record was kept completely on the breeding(s) on this particular male.

As Walt mentioned in an earlier post yesterday I believe, that most of the GNH do now have an amount of Am. stock in them as the most of the folks breeding them are not keeping up with it or the purity of these GNH now.

Jeff