Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[racinchickins]

Hi Everyone.

I've been lurking on this wonderful thread for quite a while now. I promised myself I wouldn't post anything until I had read the entire thread. Tonight, under the light of the blue moon, I finally caught up and finished all amazing 14000 and counting posts. The amount of knowledge on this thread is staggering. And I have been working on trying to absorb it all.

I'm another neophyte on here who has been 'converted'. I started with hatchery chickens and have really enjoyed them. But I have the breeding bug pretty bad. I've bred fish for years, and now that we've literally 'bought the farm' , I'm ready to start on breeding chickens. I've been casting about far and wide trying to figure out which breed I want to work with, and was admittedly fascinated by some of the new 'it' breeds. But then I got lucky and a few things happened to change my outlook.

I recently attended the 'Seed Savers' conference in Decorah, Iowa. While I was there, I was able to attend presentations by Jeanette Berenger and Alison Martin of the ALBC on the need to preserve Heritage poultry. They talked about the work they had done with Buckeyes to help improve the breed. Around the same time, while browsing through BYC, I came upon this thread and started my journey reading it.

Jeanette and and Alison also told us of the ongoing project that has been started to help bring the Java back, and this has really piqued my interest. I went back home and did as much research as I could on the Java breed of chicken and have decided this is the breed for me. A breed with as much history and relevance as the Java is something I can really get behind.

I currently do not have any Javas myself. I tend to research a subject to death so that I am sure of it, then commit. Although I am ready for the commitment, on this thread I've found some more avenues for research to explore first. I have seen several mentions of Javas on here, and some participants have said they currently are raising them. I have some questions for you.

For those that are raising them, what is your opinion on the current state of the breed today? What are some of the major/well known lines of Javas? Which of those are still in existence? Of the Black or Mottled Javas, which is in more need of help? Or is the need urgent for both? I want to limit myself to one variety, so I can stay focused. And who are the 'Go to' people for info on the breed?

I've got a million other questions, but that should do it for a start. Thanks in advance for any info you may have.

 

[Pozees]

Evening all,

I need some breeding advise PLEASE

For those of you who don't know me, I breed Standard Columbian Plymouth Rocks

I was looking over my 2013 pullets to determine who/which ones to keep. I have kept 2 hens from 2012 hatch (2013 breeders). My plans were to keep the 2 older hens and breed them back to a son in 2014, and breed the pullets back to their sire.

My quandary is this....my pullets are MUCH better than the 2 hens in type and color (much better tails, long backs, great front ends), and the 2 hens were the best I had from last yr.

Do I get rid of the older hens and keep only the improved pullets or do I stay with my plan even though the pullets are better than their mothers?

Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Scott

Scott, your original plan still has great merit. If the quandary centers on limited space, and you want to try breeding some pullets to their brother(s) as well as to their father instead of breeding the hens to the sons (pullets' brothers), you might be able to "loan" the hens to someone nearby in case you need them back, or split the breeding season between hens and pullets if the space is not an issue. You may be able to pen the hens separate from the pullets and rotate the cockerel between them.

Until you see the next generation you don't know where that improvement came from. If you don't have the hens' offspring to compare to the pullets' it may be difficult to know. Are you keeping back more than one cockerel? Any chance you might be able to loan a cockerel and the hens as a trio to someone else who wants to be a breeding partner?

To me it sounds as if you may be on the brink of much, much deeper knowledge of your birds, it is very exciting and I can't wait until this time next year when you can tell and show us how it all worked out!

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: well if the mothers threw such nice pullets this year, I would keep them and breed them as you suggested. Sounds like they might throw some nice ones next year.
In my foundation trio , only one of the hens was a rock star. The one in my avatar. The other hen, not so much. But I am wondering if I breed her back to her son,
of I can make it past this roadblock she is throwing and get some more nice chicks.
I may only be 1/2 way there this season.
Best,
Karen

 

[NotAFarm]

Scott, What you didn't mention is whether the cockerels from the hens are an improvement over the cock bird that sired them. If they are not, breed the hens back to the cock. At the least, you'd have a chance of more great pullets. I'd hesitate to get rid of the hens until the pullets prove they can throw their equal or better. The hens have proven they can.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Hi,
I have always used http://www.boxesforbirds.com They have a bunch of sizes. They number their boxes for pigeons so their 16 bird box is perfect for 3 adult size heavy fowl. If you tell them the size birds you are shipping, they will tell you the best boxes for those size birds.The reusable boxes are both USPS and vet approved. They have replaceable HEPA filters over the holes. Sturdily built. Shipped flat and very easy to put together. When I shipped my foundation trio of adult sized Light Sussex birds down here to western PA from Montana, I used their new 3 bird box. They have a new divider which makes it into 3 triangle sections. The box is almost 3 ft. long. I wondered how that was going to mesh with the USPS. I kinda hoped the sheer size of the box would keep it from being ignored or set aside. I wasn't disappointed. The box arrived here 3 hours early! In perfect condition, as were the birds, VBG. BFB has wonderful customer service. One thing, tho it is not needed for sturdiness, I would cut a separate piece of cardboard to set in the bottom of the box. That way it keeps the box bottom clean for next time. I use excelsior pads and floor the box with them so the bird can get a grip on the flooring.,, and any poop seems to fall thru the excelsior to the Kraft paper to which the excelsior is glued. Excelsior pads can be bought a number of places. I got mine from a manufacturer who was wanting to sell a canceled order from his dock. When I get birds shipped to me, I buy all these supplies and have them shipped to the seller.
I also have Poultry Nutri-Drench on hand because birds are usually stressed for several days in a new environment and this nutritional supplement makes up for any lack of uptake of nutrients,. http://www.bovidr.com/poultry.html I can either give them several drops by mouth or put it in their water ( I do that anyway). Available online and at Agway and Tractor Supply which has the best price I found @ 6.99 .
For the trip, get some Grogel Plus and give them each a generous portion.
http://www.randallburkey.com/Gro-Gel-Plus-B-100-Dose/productinfo/80900/#.UhWKLcXD-00 It has everything they need for food and hydration.
Plus, you don't have to worry about the birds being stopped at a border by a State which is finicky about fruit passing their borders.
Best, Karen
-----
Am really happy to see the excelsior (also called "wood wool") pads mentioned. They are just great. Won't ship chicks without them. Consist of curly-Q thin wood ribbons affixed to brown Kraft paper. Great for giving birds a foothold so they don't slip. Plus the poop tends to fall thru to the paper. There is a directory of excelsior pad manufacturers on the Net. Possible to find one with a canceled shipment on the dock who will cut a deal to get it shipped out. Some of those longer than 40 hour heaters spike hot (uncomfortable to stand on directly for the birds) until they level off for the duration. Agree with taping to side of box. One thing, if you are using heater pads with 3 red lines running across it, do not cover the lines with tape or the pad will cool.
U.S. Excelsior Manufacturers Companies
Manta has 14 companies under Excelsior Manufacturers Companies in U.S.
http://www.manta.com/mb_35_E01AD05K_000/shavings_and_packaging_excelsior
I got mine here: http://www.americanexcelsior.com/woodfibers/
This is what they look like. I think one can do better buying from the manufacturer:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Excelsior-N...284?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19dd75829c

 

[T Eugene]

Hi Everyone.

I've been lurking on this wonderful thread for quite a while now. I promised myself I wouldn't post anything until I had read the entire thread. Tonight, under the light of the blue moon, I finally caught up and finished all amazing 14000 and counting posts. The amount of knowledge on this thread is staggering. And I have been working on trying to absorb it all.

I'm another neophyte on here who has been 'converted'. I started with hatchery chickens and have really enjoyed them. But I have the breeding bug pretty bad. I've bred fish for years, and now that we've literally 'bought the farm' , I'm ready to start on breeding chickens. I've been casting about far and wide trying to figure out which breed I want to work with, and was admittedly fascinated by some of the new 'it' breeds. But then I got lucky and a few things happened to change my outlook.

I recently attended the 'Seed Savers' conference in Decorah, Iowa. While I was there, I was able to attend presentations by Jeanette Berenger and Alison Martin of the ALBC on the need to preserve Heritage poultry. They talked about the work they had done with Buckeyes to help improve the breed. Around the same time, while browsing through BYC, I came upon this thread and started my journey reading it.

Jeanette and and Alison also told us of the ongoing project that has been started to help bring the Java back, and this has really piqued my interest. I went back home and did as much research as I could on the Java breed of chicken and have decided this is the breed for me. A breed with as much history and relevance as the Java is something I can really get behind.

I currently do not have any Javas myself. I tend to research a subject to death so that I am sure of it, then commit. Although I am ready for the commitment, on this thread I've found some more avenues for research to explore first. I have seen several mentions of Javas on here, and some participants have said they currently are raising them. I have some questions for you.

For those that are raising them, what is your opinion on the current state of the breed today? What are some of the major/well known lines of Javas? Which of those are still in existence? Of the Black or Mottled Javas, which is in more need of help? Or is the need urgent for both? I want to limit myself to one variety, so I can stay focused. And who are the 'Go to' people for info on the breed?

I've got a million other questions, but that should do it for a start. Thanks in advance for any info you may have.

I have ten chicks of Dr Albert McGraw's strain of mottled javas. Four ckl and six pullets. They came from Bob Blosl who has the parents of mine and a few more. They should lay by winter and I should have chicks to distribute by spring. Are they nice birds or anywhere near SOP? It's a little soon to tell but they look good to me. These are my first chickens (at 63) so I see two legs, two wings, I'm making myself hungry.....Some have more white tips on the black feathers than others. They don't have the final set yet but many glow a beautiful green sheen. I can't wait to see how big they get and type. They are basic brick shape, not wyandotte round. Two of the ckls have black tails with white tips. It can be hard to get the solid white out of the tail (I've read). All have white feathers in the wing primaries, some still going toward black. Those are the hardest to get black (I read). They hold the head above the tail with nice tail angle and long backs. Close to SOP? We'll see. They may have longer legs than the Urch birds I've seen pictures of. The feathers are tight to the body. They are not fluff balls. For now anyway. When they fluff their whole body and shake, they're twice as big. Then they shrink back. Fun to watch. I would love to share them with you. Bob is hoping we can find commited preservationists to help keep and improve them. I will create a website with pictures and stats when they are grown.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Hi Everyone.

I've been lurking on this wonderful thread for quite a while now. I promised myself I wouldn't post anything until I had read the entire thread. Tonight, under the light of the blue moon, I finally caught up and finished all amazing 14000 and counting posts. The amount of knowledge on this thread is staggering. And I have been working on trying to absorb it all.

I'm another neophyte on here who has been 'converted'. I started with hatchery chickens and have really enjoyed them. But I have the breeding bug pretty bad. I've bred fish for years, and now that we've literally 'bought the farm' , I'm ready to start on breeding chickens. I've been casting about far and wide trying to figure out which breed I want to work with, and was admittedly fascinated by some of the new 'it' breeds. But then I got lucky and a few things happened to change my outlook.

I recently attended the 'Seed Savers' conference in Decorah, Iowa. While I was there, I was able to attend presentations by Jeanette Berenger and Alison Martin of the ALBC on the need to preserve Heritage poultry. They talked about the work they had done with Buckeyes to help improve the breed. Around the same time, while browsing through BYC, I came upon this thread and started my journey reading it.

Jeanette and and Alison also told us of the ongoing project that has been started to help bring the Java back, and this has really piqued my interest. I went back home and did as much research as I could on the Java breed of chicken and have decided this is the breed for me. A breed with as much history and relevance as the Java is something I can really get behind.

I currently do not have any Javas myself. I tend to research a subject to death so that I am sure of it, then commit. Although I am ready for the commitment, on this thread I've found some more avenues for research to explore first. I have seen several mentions of Javas on here, and some participants have said they currently are raising them. I have some questions for you.

For those that are raising them, what is your opinion on the current state of the breed today? What are some of the major/well known lines of Javas? Which of those are still in existence? Of the Black or Mottled Javas, which is in more need of help? Or is the need urgent for both? I want to limit myself to one variety, so I can stay focused. And who are the 'Go to' people for info on the breed?

I've got a million other questions, but that should do it for a start. Thanks in advance for any info you may have.

Greetings Racin'! Nice to read your plans. For my vote, I'd say go with the mottled. Not only is there a great opportunity here, but the Mottled Java is the only Mottled brown egger out there. Especially if you're going to keep the discipline to one breed, you'll be able to help ameliorate the Mottled pattern in the Java. Once you get going, I and others will be able to help you with that. It sounds like you risk going about this the right way!

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Scott, What you didn't mention is whether the cockerels from the hens are an improvement over the cock bird that sired them. If they are not, breed the hens back to the cock. At the least, you'd have a chance of more great pullets. I'd hesitate to get rid of the hens until the pullets prove they can throw their equal or better. The hens have proven they can.

Morning

Sorry, I should have elaborated further.....the cockerels are an improvement as well, but much more disappointing to me than the pullets. Front end, back length, leg station/balance, all improved.....but DANG, for the life of me I cannot get a tail on these guys yet. Color is still an issue on the males as well, but all in all the cockerels are better than the sire.

I've held 4 back so far, 3 are standing out as possible candidates. 2 of these 3 have different sires, so I may keep them both since they will be related on the female side, but not the male side

 

[gjensen]

Evening all,

I need some breeding advise PLEASE

For those of you who don't know me, I breed Standard Columbian Plymouth Rocks

I was looking over my 2013 pullets to determine who/which ones to keep. I have kept 2 hens from 2012 hatch (2013 breeders). My plans were to keep the 2 older hens and breed them back to a son in 2014, and breed the pullets back to their sire.

My quandary is this....my pullets are MUCH better than the 2 hens in type and color (much better tails, long backs, great front ends), and the 2 hens were the best I had from last yr.

Do I get rid of the older hens and keep only the improved pullets or do I stay with my plan even though the pullets are better than their mothers?

Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Scott

I would keep up with them until one of three things happened. You had matings that proved to be better, they quit laying, or they died.

 

[Pathfinders]

If I may interrupt the discussion to ask a question ---- How long should it take to process an order for the APA Standard? I sent a check by snail mail last Monday and the check hasn't hit the bank yet. Do they do batch orders? And what is the postage --- book rate or first class?

Thank yous to anyone who can provide some info.

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

Pat Horstman (the APA Secretary) is typically very busy. I am sure she will process your order in due time, but it may take a little bit. Please be patient, it will come. I believe mine came media mail (book class), but don't remember for sure.