Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Yard full o' rocks]

The hens I would keep. Breed those hens to a male who did NOT sire those pullets. Throw away those eggs , and breed them right back to the male who sired those nice pullets.

Ok Vickie, you've totally confused the Polish engineer here

Is this statement just being facetious.....meaning breed the older hens to the cock that sired the pullets in the first place? Limited coffee so far this morning after a long night building at the new church, so I'm a bit fuzzy headed this morning, my apologies

 

[thedragonlady]

Is this the move that is supposed to do a hormonal change like. I know I didn't word the question correctly as I'm in a hurry but if so elaborate on this subject I have read bits and pieces on it but have never studied it of it outcomes and effects.

Jeff

They found during invitro studies at Perdue that Mother Nature tries for genetic diversity. The result is that Ova become immune after a particular genetic combination is produced. To break the immunity you have to breed out once. Then you can breed back, and have a good chance of producing what the first breeding produced.

As an example...Man O'War's dam Mahubah was never bred to any stallion but Fair Play, MOW's sire. She never produced another MOW., or anything close . Hildene, a top producing mare, was bred back and forth between studs, and produced multiple stakes winners.The best "nick" being with Princequillld Mr.Chenery ,her owner, who also bred Secretariat, knew a thing or two.

 

[cubalaya]

that makes sense.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

They found during invitro studies at Perdue that Mother Nature tries for genetic diversity. The result is that Ova become immune after a particular genetic combination is produced. To break the immunity you have to breed out once. Then you can breed back, and have a good chance of producing what the first breeding produced.

As an example...Man O'War's dam Mahubah was never bred to any stallion but Fair Play, MOW's sire. She never produced another MOW., or anything close . Hildene, a top producing mare, was bred back and forth between studs, and produced multiple stakes winners.The best "nick" being with Princequillld Mr.Chenery ,her owner, who also bred Secretariat, knew a thing or two.

I wonder if this might help breeders who complain about fertility/hatchability after line breeding for many yrs....I understand the Good Shepherd line of Barred Rocks experiences this problem and I wonder if this could be a "quick" fix??

Just a thought

 

[catdaddyfro]

I wonder if this might help breeders who complain about fertility/hatchability after line breeding for many yrs....I understand the Good Shepherd line of Barred Rocks experiences this problem and I wonder if this could be a "quick" fix??

Just a thought

Maybe its something similar. "I'ma gonner" try, Scott. All my BRs are from the Good Shepard line but I have 2 males from Kathy's bunch and 5 hens from Matt's bunch all are from J-whip(XW poultry) stock originally but all are atleast 2 generations removed from the original parentage. We shall see this fall I hope, when they(the hens) ever get thru with this molt that they have been in for a month or more and not looking to be done for possibly a couple of more LOL I think everything they do is slow, except for eating LOL

Jeff

 

[galanie]

There is an old horsemen's saying, "Breed the best to the best, and hope for the rest." I would breed those pullets to the cockerel who has the best tail and type. The hens I would keep. Breed those hens to a male who did NOT sire those pullets. Throw away those eggs , and breed them right back to the male who sired those nice pullets. After that, breed them to your best K, and see what you get. Breed the chickens, NOT a piece of paper. It's always worked for me.

And I know exactly what you mean. No slams, it's just funny.

 

[Pathfinders]

This is totally off topic (well, almost totally), but I wanted to share a new 3rd generation rodenticide I found recently that is specifically created to reduce the risk of secondary poisoning, which can be a huge problem with dogs, cats, and various predator birds. I know not everyone is fond of hawks and owls, but I am a birder as well as a breeder of poultry, and I wrote an article a while back for Backyard Poultry Mag about the nastiness of the second generation rodenticides, after one of our dogs got into a bait and almost died.

So when i found this, I was pretty excited to read about it, and I ordered a pail which came yesterday. Set it up in the main layer coop and a couple of other spots, we'll see how it works. It's called Terad 3, and it also poses a low toxicity to birds, so in theory it won't be an issue for chickens either. Here's the website I got it from:

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/terad3-blox-p-1283.html

I'll check back in in about a month and let you know how it's working. (Note, I have no connection to the company that makes it or the website that sells it, I'm just looking forward to using something that will kill mice but not my barn cats.)

 

[MagicChicken]

Jeanette and and Alison also told us of the ongoing project that has been started to help bring the Java back, and this has really piqued my interest. I went back home and did as much research as I could on the Java breed of chicken and have decided this is the breed for me. A breed with as much history and relevance as the Java is something I can really get behind.

I currently do not have any Javas myself. I tend to research a subject to death so that I am sure of it, then commit. Although I am ready for the commitment, on this thread I've found some more avenues for research to explore first. I have seen several mentions of Javas on here, and some participants have said they currently are raising them. I have some questions for you.

For those that are raising them, what is your opinion on the current state of the breed today? What are some of the major/well known lines of Javas? Which of those are still in existence? Of the Black or Mottled Javas, which is in more need of help? Or is the need urgent for both? I want to limit myself to one variety, so I can stay focused. And who are the 'Go to' people for info on the breed?

I've got a million other questions, but that should do it for a start. Thanks in advance for any info you may have.

I am going to put in a plug for Black Javas. They seem to need more help than the Mottled Javas, and black is an easier color to breed. The Blacks are gorgeous birds - shining iridescent green in the sun, with bright red combs and wattles. I got 25 Black Java chicks from Duane Urch in Minnesota. They arrived in mid January. They are healthy, vigorous birds. I don't have any good exhibition birds in this batch but I DO have the genetic basis to develop a good show bird within a few generations. Mr. Urch is getting on in years and may not be able to continue maintaining all the lines he has. He has had this line of Black Javas for 40 years or more.

These birds are producing medium size eggs at a reasonable rate. They started laying at 4-5 months old. I was getting 6-8 eggs/day from 8 pullets in June and July. We had the hottest June on record this year - it was 100 degrees or higher every day. Now it's mid August and production has dropped to 4-5 eggs/day from the same 8 pullets, but we also had a week of 110 degree weather this month and they kept on laying. I'm impressed.

My birds are allowed out to free range. The birds that are closest to type also tend to be smarter, more inquisitive, quicker to check out different food items, and warier about potential predators. So far they have been respectful of fences. They do fly. They are wary but not overly skittish and they let me pick them up. All of these are traits that I intend to encourage.

Ideally you would find a breeder of good birds within driving distance, and pick up a good trio from them. If you can't find a good breeding trio locally, try getting chicks from Mr. Urch.

Quote:
In the ornithology world this is called an afterfeather. They are common. They range from bits of fluff to fully formed feathers.

 

[thedragonlady]

I wonder if this might help breeders who complain about fertility/hatchability after line breeding for many yrs....I understand the Good Shepherd line of Barred Rocks experiences this problem and I wonder if this could be a "quick" fix??

Just a thought

Breeding out to a totally unrelated male...heck, it wouldn't even have to be a Barred Rock, and then waiting 2 weeks to breed to the good BR males would be worth a try.If anyone tries this, please let me know the results !

 

[Robert Blosl]

Bob will you explain the hogan culling method. Thanks

I was doing some home work for a friend who wanted some help for barred rocks and found this post Jamie made a while back on this site. He must not come back on here much anymore. Also, if you can go to the Plymouth Rock Fanciers Club of America site or find the 2012 internet year book I think the article is on there that he wrote for one of my Quarterly Newsletters that explains it very well. As beginners you got to go slow on this stuff as this is advanced work for beginners but once you get the hang of what he is doing the dividends are priceless. Just like breeding it needs to be done simple with say two family's and also which goes with it is the worry of inbreeding and loosing vigor. If you choose vigor as your number one trait I don't think you will get into trouble with breeding over say five years. Also, with the different people who live five hundred miles apart who have the same strain you can swap eggs or chicks with each other every four years or so and then cross into your line for a fresh boost if you think you need it. In regards to Frank Reese Barred Rocks do they really have a hard time hatching ? I was told by a source that he may have crossed white rock blood into them down the road. That means maybe they are not pure barred rocks for 50 years. I don't know if this is true or not.

But if you got some from New York and some from Kathy of Mo or Jeremy in Nebraska and crossed them in two or three years you should have a nice shot of fresh blood to boost your vigor. Now what about crossing a Marvin Stukel line male onto two of Franks top females. What do you have to loose. You will get a big kick in fresh blood and yes maybe a bunch of faults to but they are the same line just 30 years apart or more from the original owner. If you are willing to cull hard and pick the birds you like I think within three years you will have a nice line of vigor's birds and hopefully improved tails. If it does not work out scrap the project and go into another direction. If you have some of Marvin's birds that have been line breed for say 50 years I would not cross them to improve them as Marvin has done all this work already. You would be better off keep working with a good program of your own then get some fresh blood from Marvin or Mr. Weaver say in five years if you think you need new vigor. I think the most important thing we need to do is pick a inelegant line breeding method put it down on paper keep good records and just move forward. trying to keep it simple as can be and focus more on just raising good birds and try to improve them each year and not go backwards.