Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[bnjrob]

Please excuse the scrap hardware cloth mess next to the run.

Nothing to excuse - makes me feel right at home. We're always under construction here either on our own house or chicken houses.

 

[bantams galore]

Where in Cda are you? (My husband is Canadian, and we spent the first six years of our marriage in Saskatoon.)

Atlantic Canada So you have seen the snow and felt the nip of frozen air on your cheek

 

[3riverschick]

When you talk about us newbies needing the courage to start, and trios in pens that are 4x8, it makes me want to throw up my hands and give up in our climate. How are these pen sizes determined? For instance most of what I read says a standard chicken needs 4 square feet, but a 4x8 pen gives them ten and a half! I don' t know how I would keep them warm in that situation. I guess that is what the roosting box is for. My small coops are walk-in height. you only heat the inside of the coop. Not the yard. They will go inside when they get cold. Put their waterer in the coop. They look very much like this: https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/playhouse-chicken-coop
Inside the coop part they get 4 sq. feet each. This amount of space keeps them from getting stressed when they have to stay inside 24/7 because of foul weather. I have never had my birds have stress issues like feather-picking, etc. when they had 4 sq. ft. ea. inside. That's a nice 3' deep x 4' wide x 4' high coop for three birds. Now by raising the coop 2 ft. off the ground, you can utilize the footage underneath for yard sq. footage so the whole assemblage doesn't have as big a footprint. Ok, so your yard is 4 ' wide and 10' long. But you can count the 3' of depth under the coop, so your walk-in run only has to extend out past the house 7 ft. Put the door in the end of the run. Bingo, you're done. . I keep an 85 watt bulb hung from the rafters in the coop. That keeps combs from freezing in 15 below blizzard conditions.

I always turned the lights on my layers in the early morning and let them go to bed with the sun, but the problem I have is four those 5-6 hours before I get up they are up and have no water except one big ice sculpture!

I use a heated base for my waterer in the big coop ( 4x6). In the 2x3 1/2 coop, I have 2 birds. They get a 65 watt light to keep the combs from freezing. Even with 10 below wind chill factor, the unheated water does not freeze in that coop.

I went to visit a local Master breeder to see what he does in our climate. He was very helpful, but He breeds Wyandotte's and white rocks, not leghorns. Of course he and I are both raising bantams. He told me the difference for me would be the tails on the leghorns are much bigger than his birds so they would need more room but he was never raised leghorns.
With 55 years in poultry, I don't think not breeding your breed is going to be an issue, He has experience in bantams.

He has an insulated room, that has pens stacked 3 high. He keeps a trio or quad of birds in pens that are 32" deep and 48" long, and 20" tall. Then he has some 24" x24" that he uses for conditioning or to put a pair of birds in for breeding. He has a lot of cages for single males that are 16" deep and 24 inches long, and the male reaches out through a hole in the front for water and feed. His birds are beautiful, the guy wins, a lot, and has won awards from the APA, but I don't know how to apply what he does to leghorns.
Go back to him and tell him thanks for his help. Have him help you with precise measurements with a blueprint for your cages. Then have him go over how you rotate and use the cages for your birds. It sounds like all you need are some amended measurements for your breed and some instruction on breeding plans. frankly, if it was me, and I had the money and room, I would just copycat the master breeder and have him help you amend any plans needed for the difference in breeds. He has already worked out all the kinks of raising birds in your climate.


He told me that with these pens filled in winter the water hardly ever freezes because the birds can keep themselves warm. He has shown poultry for 55 Years, he was tell me.
How wonderful you have such a veteran breeder to consult with! I asked a famous veteran breeder in England what they did about frozen water. He told me they put a bit of glycerin on the top of the water. That kept their water from freezing. Pretty clever, I thought.
Best,
Karen in western PA, USA

 

[thedragonlady]

Another breeder told GIN would keep the water from freezing too ! Pickled birds though .

 

[imtrying]

haha

 

[Pathfinders]

Atlantic Canada So you have seen the snow and felt the nip of frozen air on your cheek

Oh yes. I actually grew up in Cleveland, went to college in Syracuse, then lived in NJ, NH, then SK, then WI, MN, and now KY. My husband is originally a Haligonian, but he moved west for work (he was a photographer for the Winnipeg Free Press for about 15 years, and then went to work for the Wheat Pool at The Western Producer.)

I am a northerner, for sure, and have dealt with my share of snow and cold. The heat here in KY in the summer just slays me. I would rather be out working in 10 degree weather than 90 any day. And I miss the winter sports a lot. Not enough snow here to ski or snowshoe.

You know it's cold when the hairs in your nose freeze as you're breathing. I joke with my friends here that they don't actually know from cold. The year we left Toontown we'd had 6 weeks or more where it was -40 F or below (ambient temp, not with the wind chill.) That was it for me. I politely suggested to my husband that since I was going back to 'Merica and taking our children with me, he should find a job down there and follow us. LOL...

I do miss Duluth though, it was a lovely town in which to live. Although I enjoy having a real spring and fall as we do here, and up there they are very truncated.

 

[3riverschick]

Wait a minute bantams galore.
I just reread my post. You have bantams and I gave you measurements for large fowl.
1/2 all those measurements for bantams. Brain fart, sorry about that. That's why all
his cages are smaller than my measurements.
Standard bantam measurements:
( 2 sq. ft. per bird inside ( 3'w x 2'd x 3' or 4'h coop ) with 5 sq. ft. per bird= 15 sq. ft. yard
with yard extending 3 ft. out past the end of the coop.)
If it was me, I would extend the run out past the coop a bit more, say 5-6 feet so the birds
would have a comfortable glide path if they decided to fly down from the coop.
However, if you are worried about your leghorns tails, use the large fowl measurements
for the extra room.
Or use 3 sq. ft. inside: ( 3'w' 3'dx 4'h coop) with 7.5 sq. ft. per bird in the yard = yard
extending out 5 ft. past the raised coop.

This individual coop system (above) is called a "colony system".

Now let's take a look at how your friend has it arranged in what's called an "intensive system"
in a room. The insulation is a climatic add-on, not needed in every clime.
The intensive system works just as well for breeding poultry except that since the birds are inside
one room all the time, cleanliness is even more necessary. This may be one reason the males reach
outside their cages to eat and drink, so they don't foul their cages with food, easy, peasy.
Quotes from your earlier post in bold:
I went to visit a local Master breeder to see what he does in our climate.
He has shown poultry for 55 Years
His birds are beautiful, the guy wins, a lot, and has won awards from the APA,
He has an insulated room, that has pens stacked 3 high.
He told me that with these pens filled in winter the water hardly ever freezes
because the birds can keep themselves warm.

An educated guess here is that he has found the intensive system works better and easier in the winter in your area than the colony system. Ask him if he uses the colony system in the spring and summer during breeding season so the chicks get raised outdoors. If not, why not. He has already figured out all the climatic challenges. You have a goldmine of info on your doorstep, treasure it, smile.
Best,
Karen

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

How old before you began culling? Were many obvious early (within a few weeks)? How many were needed to grow to maturity before making breeding choices?

Like I said, trying to get an idea of the sheer space required to do a breed like this right. Not for me, for the other excitable newbies.

Remember my exuberance regarding Dels? Turns out I'm not a good Del (or Col Wy) breeder candidate. Don't have room. But it took forever to get the numbers I needed to make that decision. Just trying to short cut it, so if I see a Col Wy - researching newbie, can say, go check out the HLF thread, first few days of Sept. 2013 or so...

Good afternoon andd my apologies for the delayed response. I left last Wednesday to take some clients on a bear hunt in Maine (no phones, no TVs, no internet, no nothing)

At any rate, I typically cull 3 times.....once at about 3 months (13 weeks) for obvious defects (crooked toes, knock kneed, etc....those things that can be picked out quickly). Second culling is at about 6 months. At this point I'm looking mostly at the females as they should be close to POL. By 6 months I can pick out pinched tails, improper leg color, those slowest to reach POL, and as I've progressed, I can also select a little for color. At 6 months, the males are only culled for split tails/wings, side sprigs, unusually high tails (males take FOREVER to mature) and any that are significantly behind on size.

Final culling for females is around 9 months....looking for TYPE, TYPE, TYPE....must have long backs, full front ends, well spread tails with slight lift and be laying regularly at this point. I will also pay a little attention to combs at this point. Normally, I will pick out 2-3 pullets to keep, each with different traits, based upon my goals for the next breeding season.


Final culling for males is not really until 12-15 months (at this point I'm normally down to the best 3-5, based on overall type, size and color). At this point, tails SHOULD be full with the proper lift, front ends well developed, long and wide the entire length of their back. I will also select a bit based upon color.

So, as an example, I raised about 75 chicks this season (all hatched Dec '12/Jan '13) so they are all around 8-9 months old. I am currently still raising 4 males and 12 females, although I've just finished selecting the pullets I will keep (only 3 are staying)

I hope this helps, if not....ask away and I'll fill in any details I've omitted

Again, my apologies for the delay in responding

 

[thedragonlady]

Good afternoon andd my apologies for the delayed response. I left last Wednesday to take some clients on a bear hunt in Maine (no phones, no TVs, no internet, no nothing)

At any rate, I typically cull 3 times.....once at about 3 months (13 weeks) for obvious defects (crooked toes, knock kneed, etc....those things that can be picked out quickly). Second culling is at about 6 months. At this point I'm looking mostly at the females as they should be close to POL. By 6 months I can pick out pinched tails, improper leg color, those slowest to reach POL, and as I've progressed, I can also select a little for color. At 6 months, the males are only culled for split tails/wings, side sprigs, unusually high tails (males take FOREVER to mature) and any that are significantly behind on size.

Final culling for females is around 9 months....looking for TYPE, TYPE, TYPE....must have long backs, full front ends, well spread tails with slight lift and be laying regularly at this point. I will also pay a little attention to combs at this point. Normally, I will pick out 2-3 pullets to keep, each with different traits, based upon my goals for the next breeding season.


Final culling for males is not really until 12-15 months (at this point I'm normally down to the best 3-5, based on overall type, size and color). At this point, tails SHOULD be full with the proper lift, front ends well developed, long and wide the entire length of their back. I will also select a bit based upon color.

So, as an example, I raised about 75 chicks this season (all hatched Dec '12/Jan '13) so they are all around 8-9 months old. I am currently still raising 4 males and 12 females, although I've just finished selecting the pullets I will keep (only 3 are staying)

I hope this helps, if not....ask away and I'll fill in any details I've omitted

Again, my apologies for the delay in responding

The question begs to be asked: Did you get a bear?

 

[Extra Java]

Good afternoon andd my apologies for the delayed response. I left last Wednesday to take some clients on a bear hunt in Maine (no phones, no TVs, no internet, no nothing)

At any rate, I typically cull 3 times.....once at about 3 months (13 weeks) for obvious defects (crooked toes, knock kneed, etc....those things that can be picked out quickly). Second culling is at about 6 months. At this point I'm looking mostly at the females as they should be close to POL. By 6 months I can pick out pinched tails, improper leg color, those slowest to reach POL, and as I've progressed, I can also select a little for color. At 6 months, the males are only culled for split tails/wings, side sprigs, unusually high tails (males take FOREVER to mature) and any that are significantly behind on size.

Final culling for females is around 9 months....looking for TYPE, TYPE, TYPE....must have long backs, full front ends, well spread tails with slight lift and be laying regularly at this point. I will also pay a little attention to combs at this point. Normally, I will pick out 2-3 pullets to keep, each with different traits, based upon my goals for the next breeding season.


Final culling for males is not really until 12-15 months (at this point I'm normally down to the best 3-5, based on overall type, size and color). At this point, tails SHOULD be full with the proper lift, front ends well developed, long and wide the entire length of their back. I will also select a bit based upon color.

So, as an example, I raised about 75 chicks this season (all hatched Dec '12/Jan '13) so they are all around 8-9 months old. I am currently still raising 4 males and 12 females, although I've just finished selecting the pullets I will keep (only 3 are staying)

I hope this helps, if not....ask away and I'll fill in any details I've omitted

Again, my apologies for the delay in responding

SO... you mentioned culling for crooked toes and now I have to ask... I have heard somewhere that this is sometimes due to incubation and not necessarily genetic. (?)
The reason I ask is because I have a male with a crooked toe right now but don't want to use him if it's genetic.

I guess test mating would be a good indicator, but I don't have the space for keeping multiple cocks.

Thanks in advance