Breeding for PERSONALITY. AKA Hello SWEET ROO!

[enola]

Yes

 

[MargaretYakoda]

A REMINDER:

This thread is dedicated to learning how to breed for gentler behavior. We are all here to learn.
That said, if all you have to contribute is that you think it can't be done, or that you disagree that it should be done, that's fine. Those particular opinions have been noted. But the thread isn't for convincing us we can't do what we haven't even tried yet.

If you don't want to breed your flock for non-aggressive behavior, no one will tell you you're wrong. Please extend us the same courtesy. Thank you.

 

[Free Feather]

Okay. This is interesting. I do not breed, but I plan on letting some of my constant broodies hatch their eggs to keep the flock going. I am debating whether I should have a hand in the eggs she happens to sit on, so I need to know a bit about breeding. It is a bit complicated, I gather.

 

[The Kibble Goddess]

I started reading on pg. 7 of this thread and so may have missed someone mentioning this, but has anyone/everyone read The Small-Scale Poultry Flock: An All-Natural Approach to Raising Chickens and Other Fowl for Home and Market Growers
by Harvey Ussery ? He has an excellent section on breeding up a sustainable flock. His use of trap nests and numbered leg bands would make it easier to know who's your nicest, best layer or what ever criteria you are selecting for. She is then isolated with your nicest, best roo for 4 weeks; 2 weeks to make sure the sperm is his and 2 weeks to get hatchable eggs with the genetics you want. He shows how to use temporary breeding pens, with the hens/roos returned to the main flock after spring brooding.

I started out with a straight run of 30 Buff Orps from a local breeder's flock of 15 hens and several roos and am down to 12 hens & 2 roos. Though this was a respected breeder, he's more of a 'hatcher' as one of the hens has pin feathers on her feet and several have dark tail feathers. However, these chickens are closer to SOP than what i had previously gotten from a hatchery. Each roo is the start of a 'family', so that i can cross back and forth without having to bring in new chickens - I don't trust the hygiene of many local chicken keepers. Both families are going to be selected for early onset of laying, overall quality of laying, meatiness, size, conformation & color. Good personality is a given. As is smarts - they've got to know how to forage & avoid some of the dumb things i've seen chickens do They are on their way. I've marked out the two earliest layers with colored leg bands, and those who have egregious SOP faults. As soon as i can i plan on putting trap doors on their nestboxes and ordering up some numbered leg bands.

I look forward to following this thread.

 

[fisherlady]

Okay. This is interesting. I do not breed, but I plan on letting some of my constant broodies hatch their eggs to keep the flock going. I am debating whether I should have a hand in the eggs she happens to sit on, so I need to know a bit about breeding. It is a bit complicated, I gather.

I have a henhouse full of broodies, but to allow them eggs would be a pain if I didn't control who the parents were. I have only kept the best examples of roosters I had to choose from for the breeds I keep, for my coop the term 'best example' includes personality issues. To keep the general friendliness of the coop I only set eggs I know for sure are laid by hens who have the best personalities. I often separate out those hens for a few days to gather just their eggs for the broodies. This has allowed me to end up with a more predictable set of traits in our chicks which has worked well for us. I haven't done research into any in depth genetic issues yet, because I haven't tried to alter a lot of any physical traits such as comb type or feather pattern...
Genetics can be very complicated, how deep you get into the research of them depends on how you want to control the traits in your coop. Any time you hatch out the chicks you will be learning more about how your birds' genetics mix and mingle. Basic record keeping will help you decide which genetic mixes you prefer so you can repeat them later.

 

[lazy gardener]

I for one, will not be keeping breeding pens. Nor will I be keeping extensive records. What I will be doing is removing any aggressive hens and roos from the flock, selecting eggs from the best and most productive hens, essentially choosing eggs from the hens and roo which have a good chance of passing on the desirable traits of the best members of my flock. And, by doing so for successive generations, I expect that my end product will be better than what I start with. That's what animal husbandry and stewardship are all about. I am excited that this thread has generated the interest of other like minded souls who see the benefit of breeding the home flock with the intent on improving over the standard offerings of the hatcheries, where little focus is placed on any qualities of the bird other than production. I invite those who say it can't be done to step aside while those of us who know it can be done get the job done.
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ETA: Kibble Goddess. I love Ussery's book. He not only looks at all aspects of keeping poultry, but he also looks at the environmental impact. And his breeding info is good as well. He points out that it is very possible to do what we are all trying to accomplish.

FisherLady: I will be doing a simplified version of your approach. But, I am also looking to produce specific feathering, egg qualities, and comb, hoping for the end result to be a colored egg layer, small comb, auto sexing, non-agressive bird. i really don't care if I accomplish all of this goal, I'm having a fun time playing with my flock's gene pool in the mean time.

 

[LindaB220]

George,

This is simply not true. A hen's genetics are 50% the rooster that she was born from. When you put selective pressure on your roosters, you ARE putting selective pressure on your hens. If you're back breeding, and not swapping roosters every year, your hens are going to get most of their genetics from the rooster.

The offspring of a hen backbred to her father gets 75% of it's DNA from the father. If you don't think that puts selective pressure on the female line, you don't understand how selection works. As long as you're not replacing your rooster every generation, your population is going to drift toward the rooster.

Chickens are the opposite of humans - Males are ZZ and females are ZW - the only things you can't select via the males are genes specifically on the W chromosome. At this point there's absolutely no evidence that the genes that cause human aggression are on the sex specific chromosomes.

Oh that's good. Another point is to stay away from known breeds that have bad roosters. RIR is the one I'm thinking of. Hatchery stock is a crapshoot. I like Plymouth White Rocks. Mine are so gentle. Today I picked my pride and joy. A local fellow shows birds and had gotten ahold of a Blosl White Rock. Beautiful, big and regal. But too much trouble keeping him clean for the shows. So I got him. I have also bought a few months ago from this fellow. One Blosl pullet and a XW Rooster and 2 pullets. This fellow is so gentle and tame. Love it.

 

[LindaB220]

Pro:
1) We would like to try breeding our backyard flocks in an attempt to get roosters who are not a danger to humans. We believe we can do it if we try.
2) We are not expecting to get lap roosters, or feathered tribbles.
3) We understand that it will take time, and that we will need to use careful recording techniques, and breeding pens to do this right.
4) We also understand that we will need to pay attention to any aggressive behavior in the potential breeding hens.

Con:
1) Aggressive roosters are needed to keep flocks safe from predators.
2) Selective breeding and culling are essentially the same thing. And in order to achieve our goal we would need to do constant and very deep culling.
3) We would need to have many pens, and a burdensome level of record keeping.
4) The characteristics of a gentle rooster will revert back to the mean in very few generations.

Did I get that right?

You forgot one on the pro side: PAY NO ATTENTION TO NAYSAYERS!!!

Good job.

Great going Lazy Gardener, Fisher Lady and Kibble Goddess

 

[MargaretYakoda]

I started reading on pg. 7 of this thread and so may have missed someone mentioning this, but has anyone/everyone read The Small-Scale Poultry Flock: An All-Natural Approach to Raising Chickens and Other Fowl for Home and Market Growers
by Harvey Ussery ? He has an excellent section on breeding up a sustainable flock. His use of trap nests and numbered leg bands would make it easier to know who's your nicest, best layer or what ever criteria you are selecting for. She is then isolated with your nicest, best roo for 4 weeks; 2 weeks to make sure the sperm is his and 2 weeks to get hatchable eggs with the genetics you want. He shows how to use temporary breeding pens, with the hens/roos returned to the main flock after spring brooding.

I'm going to have to get that book. Thanks!

 

[AmericanMom]

I agree with Lazy Garderer.. I wont be keeping records either, I have my roosters that I want, both are not human aggressive. I have culled all the ones who didn't make the cut and I am going into 2015 with confidence.

Although I love my EE eggs I wont be hatching much of them, I might do a couple test batches to see if any things changed but those two girls threw out nearly 80% cockerels last year ..I may find someone who just wants eggs and sell those two and find a couple more.

As far as aggressive hens, I don't suffer that any longer..