Breeding for size and color?

[NatJ]

Just primarily overall size. Bigger heavier though i do not raise them for meat or eggs. I like big dogs, I have Saints, 8month old pups 107 and 134 pounds. Big cats, Mane Coon, at 25 pounds. Flemish giant rabbits. Toulouse geese. White Holland turkeys just because they are several inches taller than most and two Jersey Giant simply because they have a huge wingspan. Funny i like small cows.
My goal is to breed some of the largest, light buff chickens possible.
To adorn my property.

It sounds like you probably want tall, heavy, and with fluffy feathers (which make it look even bigger than it otherwise would.)

You will probably just have to try a few different things to see what works. Breeding various directions with what you have is a good starting point.


You might get a few chickens of other breeds that are supposed to be big, raise them up, and see if they are any bigger, or if their chicks are bigger, if you cross them into the ones you have. If you get hens, you can cross them all to your current big rooster and then see which chicks are how close to what you want.

Since you like buff, it would make sense to try other buff breeds first. Buff Cochins are an obvious choice, as are Buff Brahmas. I wonder about Buff Minorcas, too. They are not supposed to be as heavy as the Cochins and Brahmas, but in photos they look rather tall, so they may contribute to a larger overall chicken. For any breed, they might be bigger from one source than another. So you might try getting the same breed from more than one hatchery, or from a hatchery and a private breeder.

If you can't find big enough buffs, yes you certainly could try Jersey Giants. You will get black chicks from the first cross, but breeding those back to buff should give at least a few buffs if you hatch enough chicks, although they may not be very good buffs until a few more generations of selection and breeding.

 

[calboy147]

It sounds like you probably want tall, heavy, and with fluffy feathers (which make it look even bigger than it otherwise would.)

You will probably just have to try a few different things to see what works. Breeding various directions with what you have is a good starting point.


You might get a few chickens of other breeds that are supposed to be big, raise them up, and see if they are any bigger, or if their chicks are bigger, if you cross them into the ones you have. If you get hens, you can cross them all to your current big rooster and then see which chicks are how close to what you want.

Since you like buff, it would make sense to try other buff breeds first. Buff Cochins are an obvious choice, as are Buff Brahmas. I wonder about Buff Minorcas, too. They are not supposed to be as heavy as the Cochins and Brahmas, but in photos they look rather tall, so they may contribute to a larger overall chicken. For any breed, they might be bigger from one source than another. So you might try getting the same breed from more than one hatchery, or from a hatchery and a private breeder.

If you can't find big enough buffs, yes you certainly could try Jersey Giants. You will get black chicks from the first cross, but breeding those back to buff should give at least a few buffs if you hatch enough chicks, although they may not be very good buffs until a few more generations of selection and breeding.

Minorcas.. Never thought about them. But looked at a few photos just now and saw comments about them being a taller breed. Will be looking into them. I am shooting more toward the Orpington Buff coloration so those Cochins look like an appropriate choice. If i tossed in a couple Jersey Giants, how many generations is it likely to root out as much white and or black as possible would your expertise tell you? Thanks a bunch for your input.

 

[NatJ]

If i tossed in a couple Jersey Giants, how many generations is it likely to root out as much white and or black as possible would your expertise tell you?

If you use White Jersey Giants, you probably have all the genes for black, plus recessive white turning the whole bird white.

Getting rid of recessive white could be hard, because a bird can carry one copy of the gene and never show it-- but breeding with another carrier will produce about 1/4 white chicks, 1/2 carrier chicks, and 1/4 chicks who do not show or carry recessive white.

I would probably use Black Jersey Giants, to avoid the recessive white. Getting rid of the black will be the same either way.

The first generation of crossed chicks will all show black but carry the genes from the buff parent. So pick the biggest, and breed them back to buff. That generation should produce some chicks that are buff, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of the total chicks. They will probably not be good buffs (may have bits of black, may be the wrong shade.) But if you select those buffs for breeding, and do not cross back to the blacks, you should never again see an all-black or mostly-black bird. The E gene that makes a chicken all black is dominant, so once it is gone it really is gone. I do not know how many more generations it will take to get back to good buffs. The more chicks you hatch each time, the faster you will make progress, because you increase the odds of finding some with a really good combinaton of size, shade of gold, lack of black, correct gender, etc. This is especially true when breeding mixes to mixes, because you may have quite a few genes that are appearing in many different combinations.

 

[calboy147]

If you use White Jersey Giants, you probably have all the genes for black, plus recessive white turning the whole bird white.

Getting rid of recessive white could be hard, because a bird can carry one copy of the gene and never show it-- but breeding with another carrier will produce about 1/4 white chicks, 1/2 carrier chicks, and 1/4 chicks who do not show or carry recessive white.

I would probably use Black Jersey Giants, to avoid the recessive white. Getting rid of the black will be the same either way.

The first generation of crossed chicks will all show black but carry the genes from the buff parent. So pick the biggest, and breed them back to buff. That generation should produce some chicks that are buff, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of the total chicks. They will probably not be good buffs (may have bits of black, may be the wrong shade.) But if you select those buffs for breeding, and do not cross back to the blacks, you should never again see an all-black or mostly-black bird. The E gene that makes a chicken all black is dominant, so once it is gone it really is gone. I do not know how many more generations it will take to get back to good buffs. The more chicks you hatch each time, the faster you will make progress, because you increase the odds of finding some with a really good combinaton of size, shade of gold, lack of black, correct gender, etc. This is especially true when breeding mixes to mixes, because you may have quite a few genes that are appearing in many different combinations.

I keep reading about weight at 12 or 16 weeks for meat birds. Since i could not care less about weight at production age , how long would you suggest keeping a bird to get a good ideal of size and finished color?

 

[NatJ]

I keep reading about weight at 12 or 16 weeks for meat birds. Since i could not care less about weight at production age , how long would you suggest keeping a bird to get a good ideal of size and finished color?

It partly depends on how much patience you have. Some chickens keep growing until 18 months or 2 years, while others stop much sooner.

You will probably need to keep some for longer than others. For example, if you have a hatch with some blacks and some buffs, you can recognize as soon as they hatch that you do not want to keep the blacks. But sorting out the buffs will take longer. Any time you are sure that a particular one is not right, you can remove that one, which makes it easier to focus on the others.

You could try weighing and measuring the chicks every month or so, to see how fast they are growing at what age. It is quite likely that some chicks will stop growing at a certain age & size, while some others will grow for longer and get bigger overall.

I have never done a project like this, so I really don't know how long it will take to be sure. If you know how old your current male was when he started looking really good, that might give an idea of how long to keep the most promising few.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Interesting, thanks!


So, my blonde barred GH chick is probably gold + silver then?


View attachment 3485490View attachment 3485496

Maybe. My gold and silver barred didn't show any gold down as a chick. He didn't look any different than the full silver chicks

 

[SourRoses]

What about Isabel English Orpingtons ?

English Orps are bigger and heavier than regular Orps, so that would save you some breeding effort. They come in Buff too.

Thanks @NatJ and @JacinLarkwell for responding to my question, sorry I missed the follow-up. To avoid derailing this thread I'll post any updates in the GH thread and tag you guys when I do