Breeding questions

[Chicken poppy]

So this may come off confusing (because im very bad at explaining things properly) and it might be to vague to answer, but i wanted to ask a few questions about breeding (breeding projects more specifically)

I plan on doing a long term breeding project of some sort somewhere in the future. Either doing certain egg laying (for certain colors) or a new breed. So if anyone knows the answers, i would really appreciate if you could respond!

Okay, so i know nothing about how you can get, say, a certain egg color, or mixing EE colors for a certain one.

1. If i understand this correctly, when your breeding EE’s, lets say you have a rooster who hatched from a tan egg, and a hen who lays blue eggs. Thats how you figure out the egg color they would lay? Which if im correct, would be a minty green?

2. If i wanted to make a new breed, and i had an end goal. Lets say i wanted a Japanese bantam with feathered feet that laid green eggs. What would i do to get the end goal?

3. When breeding, does it matter the gender? Like if a Japanese bantam roo and a bantam cochin hen had a chick, would a gender swap change what the chick could potentially be?

4. If a Japanese rooster (White black tailed) mated with a Bantam cochin hen (blue) what would the chicks look like?

Thanks in advance!

 

[MysteryChicken]

Egg color is one thing I'm still learning, so I'll let someone else answer that portion.

#3. I don't think it matters much which gender you use for that crossing. You should get pretty similar results either way you choose.

#4. Black, & Blue should be expected. Possibly with silver leakage.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

i understand this correctly, when your breeding EE’s, lets say you have a rooster who hatched from a tan egg, and a hen who lays blue eggs. Thats how you figure out the egg color they would lay? Which if im correct, would be a minty green?

If the hen is homozygous for blue

 

[Yardmom]

I don't have all the details figured out myself,.but you need to start with basic genetics. Each pair of genes that make up a chicken or any other living thing come one gene from the male one gene from the female. In those pairs you have dominant and recessive genes. How those are paired is going to determine what is seen and what could be seen in the next generation. Egg color gets a bit complicated because the brown is not in the same pairing as the Blue and white.

 

[NatJ]

1. If i understand this correctly, when your breeding EE’s, lets say you have a rooster who hatched from a tan egg, and a hen who lays blue eggs. Thats how you figure out the egg color they would lay? Which if im correct, would be a minty green?

For egg color, there are two kinds of color involved:

blue or not-blue base color
brown or not-brown on the outside

A white egg has a not-blue base color, and no brown on the outside
A brown egg has a not-blue base color, but does have brown on the outside
A blue egg has a blue base color, with no brown on the outside
A green egg has a blue base color, and also has brown on the outside

For blue vs. not-blue, each chicken inherits one gene from the father and one from the mother. Blue is dominant, so a pullet who inherits blue from either parent will lay blue or green eggs. But if that pullet has one copy of the blue egg gene, and one copy of the not-blue egg gene, her chicks could inherit either one. If she has two copies of the blue egg gene (one from each parent), then she must give one to each chick, because she does not have any not-blue egg genes.

For brown, there are a bunch of genes that affect whether there is brown on the shell and how dark it is. For most of them, you can just pretend that the chick will have an average of what shades the parents had (because there are many genes and each has a small effect.)

2. If i wanted to make a new breed, and i had an end goal. Lets say i wanted a Japanese bantam with feathered feet that laid green eggs. What would i do to get the end goal?

You would figure out what genes are needed, and start with chickens that have those genes. For your example, of course you would start with some Japanese bantams. You would also need some chicken that lays blue or green eggs, and some chicken that has feathered feet. You might be able to find a feather-footed Easter Egger or Olive Egger, or you might need a feather footed breed (like a Cochin) and a blue layer (like a Cream Legbar or an Easter Egger.)

The gene that controls whether eggs are blue is linked to the gene that controls whether a chicken has a pea comb, so they tend to be inherited together. If you want your new chicken to have a single comb and lay green eggs, you should start with a blue-layer or green-layer that has a single comb, not pea (so Cream Legbar rather than Ameraucana.)
They can be lnked in any combination:
blue egg, pea comb in Ameraucana
blue egg, not-pea comb in Cream Legbar
not-blue egg, pea comb in Brahma
not-blue egg, not-pea comb in Japanese Bantam

For actually breeding them, there are various ways to combine.
I might start with something like this:
--Japanese bantam x Cochin (to get feathered feet), keep a son
--Japanese bantam x Cream Legbar (to get blue or green eggs), keep as many daughters as you can, and check their eggs to be sure they really are blue or green

Then cross that son and those daughters, and hatch LOTS of eggs
From all those chicks, select ones that look closest to what you want, and check all females for whether they lay the correct color of eggs. Maybe pay for a DNA test for the best few males, to get ones that have the blue egg gene.

Then start interbreeding those chicks, and select offspring that are even closer to what you want.

You may want to cross back to the Japanese bantam at some point, but you shouldn't have to cross back to the Cochin or the Legbar unless you lose the feathered feet or the colored eggs.

After enough generations, you can probably have chickens that breed true for all the traits you want. If you hatch really large numbers of chicks, and select the best few for breeding, you will get there in fewer generations. If you only hatch a few chicks each year, it will take more years to reach your goal.

3. When breeding, does it matter the gender? Like if a Japanese bantam roo and a bantam cochin hen had a chick, would a gender swap change what the chick could potentially be?

It only matters if you are working with genes on the Z sex chromosome.
For example, if one parent is gold and the other is silver, the direction of the cross matters. But if both parents are gold, all the chicks will be gold, no matter which way you cross the parents.

Genes on the Z sex chromsome include:
gold/silver
barring
fast/slow feathering
chocolate
dark/light skin

4. If a Japanese rooster (White black tailed) mated with a Bantam cochin hen (blue) what would the chicks look like?

Some chicks would look black, and some would look blue. They all have a chance of some silver leakage.

If you swapped parents (Blue Cochin father, Black Tailed White Japanese mother), I would expect the same results.

If the Japanese feathers fast and the Cochin feathers slowly, one direction would give feather-sexable chicks (fast father, slow mother makes fast daughters and slow sons). But if the father has slow feathering, you will get slow-feathering chicks of both genders (and maybe some fast-feathering chicks as well, if he also carries that gene.)

Basics of chicken sex chromosomes:
--the male has ZZ. He inherits one Z from each of his parents, and gives one Z to each chick he sires. Since he has two Z chromosomes, he can show a dominant gene and carry a recessive gene, or he might be pure for the dominant or pure for the recessive.

--the female has ZW. She inherits Z from her father and passes it to her sons. She inherits W from her mother and passes it to her daughters. With only one Z chromosome, she must show whatever genes are on that chromosome. She is silver, or she is gold, but she can never show one and carry the other. (Likewise for each other trait. She has it or she does not, but she never carries a hidden recessive on the Z chromosome.)

 

[Chicken poppy]

For egg color, there are two kinds of color involved:

blue or not-blue base color
brown or not-brown on the outside

A white egg has a not-blue base color, and no brown on the outside
A brown egg has a not-blue base color, but does have brown on the outside
A blue egg has a blue base color, with no brown on the outside
A green egg has a blue base color, and also has brown on the outside

For blue vs. not-blue, each chicken inherits one gene from the father and one from the mother. Blue is dominant, so a pullet who inherits blue from either parent will lay blue or green eggs. But if that pullet has one copy of the blue egg gene, and one copy of the not-blue egg gene, her chicks could inherit either one. If she has two copies of the blue egg gene (one from each parent), then she must give one to each chick, because she does not have any not-blue egg genes.

For brown, there are a bunch of genes that affect whether there is brown on the shell and how dark it is. For most of them, you can just pretend that the chick will have an average of what shades the parents had (because there are many genes and each has a small effect.)


You would figure out what genes are needed, and start with chickens that have those genes. For your example, of course you would start with some Japanese bantams. You would also need some chicken that lays blue or green eggs, and some chicken that has feathered feet. You might be able to find a feather-footed Easter Egger or Olive Egger, or you might need a feather footed breed (like a Cochin) and a blue layer (like a Cream Legbar or an Easter Egger.)

The gene that controls whether eggs are blue is linked to the gene that controls whether a chicken has a pea comb, so they tend to be inherited together. If you want your new chicken to have a single comb and lay green eggs, you should start with a blue-layer or green-layer that has a single comb, not pea (so Cream Legbar rather than Ameraucana.)
They can be lnked in any combination:
blue egg, pea comb in Ameraucana
blue egg, not-pea comb in Cream Legbar
not-blue egg, pea comb in Brahma
not-blue egg, not-pea comb in Japanese Bantam

For actually breeding them, there are various ways to combine.
I might start with something like this:
--Japanese bantam x Cochin (to get feathered feet), keep a son
--Japanese bantam x Cream Legbar (to get blue or green eggs), keep as many daughters as you can, and check their eggs to be sure they really are blue or green

Then cross that son and those daughters, and hatch LOTS of eggs
From all those chicks, select ones that look closest to what you want, and check all females for whether they lay the correct color of eggs. Maybe pay for a DNA test for the best few males, to get ones that have the blue egg gene.

Then start interbreeding those chicks, and select offspring that are even closer to what you want.

You may want to cross back to the Japanese bantam at some point, but you shouldn't have to cross back to the Cochin or the Legbar unless you lose the feathered feet or the colored eggs.

After enough generations, you can probably have chickens that breed true for all the traits you want. If you hatch really large numbers of chicks, and select the best few for breeding, you will get there in fewer generations. If you only hatch a few chicks each year, it will take more years to reach your goal.


It only matters if you are working with genes on the Z sex chromosome.
For example, if one parent is gold and the other is silver, the direction of the cross matters. But if both parents are gold, all the chicks will be gold, no matter which way you cross the parents.

Genes on the Z sex chromsome include:
gold/silver
barring
fast/slow feathering
chocolate
dark/light skin


Some chicks would look black, and some would look blue. They all have a chance of some silver leakage.

If you swapped parents (Blue Cochin father, Black Tailed White Japanese mother), I would expect the same results.

If the Japanese feathers fast and the Cochin feathers slowly, one direction would give feather-sexable chicks (fast father, slow mother makes fast daughters and slow sons). But if the father has slow feathering, you will get slow-feathering chicks of both genders (and maybe some fast-feathering chicks as well, if he also carries that gene.)

Basics of chicken sex chromosomes:
--the male has ZZ. He inherits one Z from each of his parents, and gives one Z to each chick he sires. Since he has two Z chromosomes, he can show a dominant gene and carry a recessive gene, or he might be pure for the dominant or pure for the recessive.

--the female has ZW. She inherits Z from her father and passes it to her sons. She inherits W from her mother and passes it to her daughters. With only one Z chromosome, she must show whatever genes are on that chromosome. She is silver, or she is gold, but she can never show one and carry the other. (Likewise for each other trait. She has it or she does not, but she never carries a hidden recessive on the Z chromosome.)

Oh my gosh, thank you so much for taking the time to explain all this. I really appreciate it! I was very confused how breeding worked (like how you have an end goal and how to get to it) so this cleared up all the confusion! Thanks again.

 

[DarJones]

There are several modifier genes that turn on or turn off the porphyrin (brown egg) biopath. One is Zinc White which almost totally prevents porphyrin production. If your breeding includes Zinc White, you will have difficulty producing green eggs. The flip side of this is if you want sky blue eggs, Zinc White makes it very easy to achieve.

The key takeaway with this is that porphyrin production depends on a bunch of genes operating together to make the coating on brown eggs. Crossing between any breed that produces blue or white eggs and any breed that lays brown eggs may take a while to sort out if you want brown or green eggs.

 

[Chicken poppy]

There are several modifier genes that turn on or turn off the porphyrin (brown egg) biopath. One is Zinc White which almost totally prevents porphyrin production. If your breeding includes Zinc White, you will have difficulty producing green eggs. The flip side of this is if you want sky blue eggs, Zinc White makes it very easy to achieve.

The key takeaway with this is that porphyrin production depends on a bunch of genes operating together to make the coating on brown eggs. Crossing between any breed that produces blue or white eggs and any breed that lays brown eggs may take a while to sort out if you want brown or green eggs.

Thank you! How interesting. I never knew about this.