Brewers Yeast or Niacin for duckling

[Aplaceforall]

Update on Floppy!
She is doing very well and is now stronger and able to fight for a place at the table. She is still on her supplements of brewers yeast and I add water soluble Niacin to her water feeder also. All my ducks have benefited from this, but for sure Floppy has had a big turnaround. She is still very small and not an efficient mover while walking so she gets a ride to the outside duck pen in a wagon, but she stands up longer now and can get in and out of her pool on her own. She has not developed feathers like her siblings and still needs a heat light to keep warm. She will mow down anyone in her way for mealworms and loves her fruit and veggie snack in the afternoon. Yes,, she is a bit spoiled! She is the queen of the farm and all the kids that visit love to hold her and she is all over that special attention for sure.
Thank you to all the folks that helped her with suggestions.

 

[Miss Lydia]

Update on Floppy!
She is doing very well and is now stronger and able to fight for a place at the table. She is still on her supplements of brewers yeast and I add water soluble Niacin to her water feeder also. All my ducks have benefited from this, but for sure Floppy has had a big turnaround. She is still very small and not an efficient mover while walking so she gets a ride to the outside duck pen in a wagon, but she stands up longer now and can get in and out of her pool on her own. She has not developed feathers like her siblings and still needs a heat light to keep warm. She will mow down anyone in her way for mealworms and loves her fruit and veggie snack in the afternoon. Yes,, she is a bit spoiled! She is the queen of the farm and all the kids that visit love to hold her and she is all over that special attention for sure.
Thank you to all the folks that helped her with suggestions.

What a wonderful update on Floppy. She sounds adorable. Now we need some up to date pics especially riding in the wagon..

 

[Aplaceforall]

FLOPPY UPDATE:

Well the day has come and Floppy and the gang have moved into the "duck condo" .
Having outgrown the pen in the garage they are spreading their wings and loving their new digs. We placed Floppy on her parade float ( formally known as the wagon) and off we went in full display, Floppy and her minions.
They took a day to explore the house and then the yard but serving mealworms at the housewarming moved things right along. They can see the big pond from their front yard and will be making the trek there in about two weeks.
Floppy took control of the house immediately staking a claim on the heat lamp corner of the house. But it is only fitting that the queen should have the first choice real estate.
She still struggles to walk but has made a companion friend with one of the Swedish runners named Cam. He likes to sit with her and she "let's" him do that.
We will send pics as soon as possible.

 

[EmilyWhite]

I tried Niacin in the water ... you need to get just the right kind of niacin, and it needs to be "refreshed" at least once per day as it is a water soluble vitamin and therefore deteriorates quickly in water ... and you know how ducklings are with water ...

I think a more practical solution is adding a niacin supplement to their feed, and that can be done with either Brewer's Yeast or Nutritional Yeast. There is a brand of Brewer's Yeast which is promoted on various poultry forums ... it also contains garlic, which you may or may not want to be feeding to your birds.

However, Nutritional Yeast has a lot more niacin than Brewer's Yeast.

Here are links to the nutritional data for each type of yeast ...

Brewer's Yeast: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/1323569/2

Nutritional Yeast: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/1323565/2

Though the headline suggests a "custom" quantity, I've "tweaked" both of those to display the nutritional value of 1 ounce (28 grams) of each so it is easier to make a direct comparison.

You can see 28 grams of Brewer's Yeast has 9.3 mg of Niacin.

You can see 28 grams of Nutritional Yeast has 98 mg of Niacin.

So, Nutritional Yeast seems a more practical option to me. You can add less. It is what an animal nutritionist recommend I use ... sprinkled over their feed.

How much you would add depends on how much is already in the feed you are providing, but as niacin is water soluble, there is little worry about overdosing with the niacin ... I'm not so sure about the other nutrients in the yeast products, though.

Nutritional Yeast can be bought in the bulk bins of grocery stores ... I'm pretty sure Brewer's Yeast can be found there, too. Certainly both are available on the shelves, but that would likely cost more than the buying it in bulk.

I am New to bird's. I have a lame 5-6 wk old mallard out of 4 I have. I've been feeding chick started since I have 24 chicks but I'm just learning they need niacin. How do u kno how much to give them? Can u give too much?

 

[Duck you]

Pay attention to the top line on that chart. The ME controls how much they eat... all the other nutrients are based upon that value to assure they eat enough to meet their needs.

Clint

huh?

I believe what he's referring to is the duck's requirement for food (metabolic) energy (ME). Basically, the 'amount' of energy from food they need, based on calories (Kcal; just like for humans). So if looking at that table you posted, grower stage would need more niacin than maintenance stage - because grower stage ME is greater.

Read more here and here.

By the way, if you're wondering why I'm responding to such an old post, it's because you posted that table link. I spent about 30 minutes trying to find such info, until I found your post. So, thanks!

P.S. I wrote this post on the fly, please ignore typos and such.

Chick starters have less bioavailable niacin because ducks (and turkeys) have high levels of the enzyme picolinic acid carboxylase which converts tryptophan the CO2 and water. Chicks convert tryptophan to niacin.

Clint

Again, huh?

I believe he's saying is chicks can more easily (efficiently) convert 'bound' niacin (as the amino acid tryptophan) in foodstuffs to bioavailable niacin their bodies can use, than ducks. So, because chicks can convert more of the tryptophan in foodstuffs into bioavailable niacin, their food needs less niacin (i.e., tryptophan) - or, conversely, duck food needs more niacin.

If regular chick starter is used, add niacin in the drinking water at the rate of 100 to 150 mg per gallon from zero to ten weeks of age.

Here is my best guess on brewer's yeast, trying to come up with an equivalent to the Storey's Guide recommended amounts of niacin.

Okay, two tablespoons of brewer's yeast contains 10 mg of niacin, based on this page http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/1323569/2

The guesswork is in how much water a duckling actually ingests in a day. If a duckling actually drinks a half a cup of water a day, it would be getting (16 cups in a gallon, 32 half cups in a gallon . . . . 150 divided by 30, more or less) 5 mg of niacin from water with 150 mg niacin per gallon. Which would be about a tablespoon of brewer's yeast.

I wouldn't suggesting adding yeast to water and assume it will provide the necessary amount of bioavailable niacin to the duck. If adding to water, it would be best, I imagine (I'm a biologist), to add liquid niacin (i.e., B3), not yeast. Like this product, which uses vegetable glycerin as the solvent - I'm not sure if vegetable glycerin is OK for ducks, but in such small amount, I imagine it's fine, and, commentators for that product state they use it for their ducks.

So for example, if you want to add 100 mg of niacin to 1 gallon (3,785.4 mL) of water, it's easiest to first convert niacin weight to volume. So, 100 mg niacin with a density of 1.47 g/mL converts to ~68 mL. And if you're using 51.04% niacin solution (that's the purity of the liquid product I linked to), the amount (mL) of niacin per mL of the solution (product) is 0.5 mL.

Therefore, if you need ~68 mL niacin per gallon, and a product contains ~51 mL niacin per mL of product, you would divide the amount needed (68 mL) by the amount per volume (in this case, mL, which is 51), you need to add 1.3 mL of that product per gallon. To convert mL to tsp, divide mL by 5, which in this case converts to ~0.25 (1/4) tsp.

Now, if you want to add 150 mg niacin to a gallon of water, using that same product, you would divide the original mass we used (100 mg) by the new amount (150 mg). Then, divide the original volume we found we need to add (1.3 mL) by that answer (0.67), for a new volume you'd add of 1.94 mL per gallon.

So how much is 28 grams?? One tsp? One tbsp???
Or some other measurement??
This niacin thing is hard to figure out!!

Grams are a measurement of weight, while tsp and tbsp are measurements of volume. So, you're trying to compare apples to oranges. To convert weight to volume you need to know the density of the thing you're converting, assuming the source of niacin is a fine powder, if not, conversion is considerably harder.

It's really best to just stick with weight in this case (if you're adding yeast to the foodstuffs, and not using liquid niacin). So, buy a $20 scale and weigh the yeast.

I am New to bird's. I have a lame 5-6 wk old mallard out of 4 I have. I've been feeding chick started since I have 24 chicks but I'm just learning they need niacin. How do u kno how much to give them? Can u give too much?

For the first question, see what I wrote above. If you have a lame duck, due to niacin deficiency, I assume it's best to get it into it 'faster.' And if that's the case, you may want to use liquid niacin, or, get an injection of niacin from your vet.

 

[EmilyWhite]

Thanks.. I ended up getting a vitamin called rooster booster that's kinda like a multivitamin for bird's that has a high enough niacin content for ducks. I also switched to a non medicated chick stayed to b safe.. After a few wks on this regimen he has feathered out, seems to have more strength and energy, and is starting to grow!.. I'm ok at math an not great at science so your formula confused me lol. Thou it was exactly what I was initially looking for. I'm not sure I could find liquid niacin. And didn't like the idea of putting it in water since they do drink out of there pool, I wouldn't know exactly how much he was getting.. Thank you for commenting and I'm glad this thread was able tip help you too!

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I believe since this conversation started Purina has updated its Flock Raiser formula to for sure be adequate with Niacin for the ducklings. And there are now the brewers yeast poultry supplement products available off the shelf for backyarders, too. That's nice as dealing with duckling water is generally headache enough without having to add the Niacin to it.

If one wishes to supplement tho, I still prefer Nutritional Yeast to Brewers Yeast, it has more Niacin but it also has more protein (great for chicks), so that should be factored for the ducklings. I wouldn't put the yeast (Brewers or Nutritional) in the water (), I hadn't realized that was a suggestion. The yeast goes in/on the feed. Maybe for ducklings soak some wheat and mix the nutritional yeast in with that and feed as a supplemental treat? Make sure there is plenty of water that's deep enough so they can clear their beaks & stuff if the yeast gets sticky. And grit.

 

[BeastyBird]

Can you overdose ducklings on Niacin/Nutritional Yeast? How much Nutritional Yeast do I add per measuring cup full of moistened non medicated chick feed? I have been through all 4 pages of this discussion and have not found an answer :X

After 6 years of no ducks have 4 call ducks heading on 2 weeks of age and while researching differences between them and other ducks (have only had standard size) I just read that call ducks tend to be more Niacin deficient so I defiantly want to supplement them and quick as they have only had non medicated chick starter all this time D:

 

[Jamity46]

So I’ve been giving my ducklings almost 4 weeks old and I was giving brewers yeast and ran out of it, my Walmart didn’t have any, so I found online they have niacin in capsule form would I just open one and sprinkle on their food in their morning- here is what it looks like

 

[Miss Lydia]

Has to be plain niacin not flush free or time released.

Brewers yeast or nutritional yeast is easier to find I think unless ordering on line.