Bumblefoot? Or something else?

[silkielover3]

Hi all,
This past Tuesday my husband & I noticed one of our silkie hens (about 8 mos old) walking a little funny, almost like a hop/limp. We put her in a separate cage from the others just so she wouldn’t be a target where she wasn’t moving around as well. On Wednesday she was still trying to hobble around in her crate, it hadn’t gotten better or worse. We decided to take her in and clean her feet really well & noticed her littlest toe nail on her R foot had come off saw very small gray-looking spots on the pad of her foot with mild swelling? It was hard to tell if it was swelling or just the normal soft tissue pads on the bottom of their feet. Did some research & assumed it to be bumblefoot. Since Wed pm have been doing 15-20 min warm water w/epsom salt soaks, and then we put some antibiotic ointment on the pads of both feet then cover in vet wrap to keep it clean. Yesterday she was trying to walk around less but feet still looked about the same as before, not better or worse. Now today she’s been mostly sitting on her bum all day not really attempting to stand or walk much. We do have food & water in her crate. We took her in preparing for the nightly routine & noticed higher up on her leg darker spots that weren’t previously there. She’s very lethargic and holding her currently shes mostly resting with eyes closed but will alert to noises/sounds. Trying to offer her treats with a little less interest, and is unable to bear weight in her legs when we try to stand her up, mostly will flap her wings a ton as if losing her balance. Does this sound like bumblefoot? Is there anything additional we should be doing? Should I bring her into the vet? If not now, then when? Just heartbreaking to see her like this

 

[silkielover3]

Editing to add: the same leg we saw spots higher up on is also intermittently shaking

 

[Razzlefrazzle]

The foot pads look like dermatitis more than bumblefoot to me. Standing in wet litter too long can cause skin irritation especially if there is a lot of poop (ammonia burns). I don't see anything that would make me think she couldn't walk.... Could it just be the foot wrapping that is making her unhappy or won't she stand when they aren't wrapped as well? I don't think the feet need to be wrapped, just kept clean and dry. If she remains lethargic I'd be concerned she is sick with something like Marek's or ALV.

 

[silkielover3]

The foot pads look like dermatitis more than bumblefoot to me. Standing in wet litter too long can cause skin irritation especially if there is a lot of poop (ammonia burns). I don't see anything that would make me think she couldn't walk.... Could it just be the foot wrapping that is making her unhappy or won't she stand when they aren't wrapped as well? I don't think the feet need to be wrapped, just kept clean and dry. If she remains lethargic I'd be concerned she is sick with something like Marek's or ALV.

What are your thoughts on her scales in the last pic? Their run is a dirt floor and coop is pine shavings and we use the deep litter method so they always have a thick/padded layer so wouldn’t really be sitting in moist conditions for an extended period of time. But yes, even when the feet aren’t wrapped she’s having a hard time standing/walking. She did attempt to walk today but it’s really more of a hop/stumble than anything but it was an attempt. Yesterday she was just sitting on her bum with legs stretched out in front of her. Today she was resting with her legs underneath her, maybe an improvement? Maybe irrelevant. I would say she’s less tired and it’s more of difficulty and apprehension to bear weight. My husband thinks possibly a sprain? We have a small step ladder our hens like to hang out on so wondering if she jumped off it wrong? Really really hoping it’s not Mareks… she has full movement of her wings & neck so that’s good. What is ALV? Some sort of avian virus? Thank you so much for replying and your insight.

 

[Razzlefrazzle]

What are your thoughts on her scales in the last pic? Their run is a dirt floor and coop is pine shavings and we use the deep litter method so they always have a thick/padded layer so wouldn’t really be sitting in moist conditions for an extended period of time. But yes, even when the feet aren’t wrapped she’s having a hard time standing/walking. She did attempt to walk today but it’s really more of a hop/stumble than anything but it was an attempt. Yesterday she was just sitting on her bum with legs stretched out in front of her. Today she was resting with her legs underneath her, maybe an improvement? Maybe irrelevant. I would say she’s less tired and it’s more of difficulty and apprehension to bear weight. My husband thinks possibly a sprain? We have a small step ladder our hens like to hang out on so wondering if she jumped off it wrong? Really really hoping it’s not Mareks… she has full movement of her wings & neck so that’s good. What is ALV? Some sort of avian virus? Thank you so much for replying and your insight.

I can't really tell what I'm seeing in the last pic... It looks sort of like her scales have cracked? I would guess it's either some sort of pressure sore from lying on her hocks too much or she scraped it on a roosting bar or something. I'd make sure she has lots of towels/padding under her to help keep the pressure off of any injuries. I'd also your other chickens for signs of foot pad dermatitis just to be safe. Depending on your set up the birds could be spilling their water and standing too long in soggy areas, or they could be pooping on the ladder and then standing in it, etc.

I definitely think it's good that she can sit with her legs under her... Best case scenario is that her feet feel worse than they look so she has just been trying to keep weight off of them. Unfortunately silkies are more prone to neurological issues and Mareks than other breeds and if you search this site you will find plenty of threads about silkies not walking right. If your chicks weren't vaccinated against Mareks that would definitely be a concern (and still a possibility even if they were vaccinated). ALV is a virus similar to Mareks that causes tumors and depending on where the tumors grow can cause all sorts of symptoms. If you have a good avian vet it might be worth taking her in if she doesn't improve soon, particularly if they can test her blood for Mareks, but there are a number of vets that will see chickens despite very limited experience who can be frustratingly unhelpful...

Sorry there are no easy answers or clear paths forward with this sort of thing. If she seems down and lethargic you could try putting her in a crate in the coop so she can see her flock but not be pecked by anyone. (Some chickens really don;t do well alone, and if she's got Mareks the others have also surely already been exposed.) Otherwise I'd just make sure she can rest comfortably and try to ensure she eats and drinks well, offering things like eggs or tuna and wet mashed pellets. Some people also make chicken slings which you might want to look into if this goes on for awhile.

 

[silkielover3]

I can't really tell what I'm seeing in the last pic... It looks sort of like her scales have cracked? I would guess it's either some sort of pressure sore from lying on her hocks too much or she scraped it on a roosting bar or something. I'd make sure she has lots of towels/padding under her to help keep the pressure off of any injuries. I'd also your other chickens for signs of foot pad dermatitis just to be safe. Depending on your set up the birds could be spilling their water and standing too long in soggy areas, or they could be pooping on the ladder and then standing in it, etc.

I definitely think it's good that she can sit with her legs under her... Best case scenario is that her feet feel worse than they look so she has just been trying to keep weight off of them. Unfortunately silkies are more prone to neurological issues and Mareks than other breeds and if you search this site you will find plenty of threads about silkies not walking right. If your chicks weren't vaccinated against Mareks that would definitely be a concern (and still a possibility even if they were vaccinated). ALV is a virus similar to Mareks that causes tumors and depending on where the tumors grow can cause all sorts of symptoms. If you have a good avian vet it might be worth taking her in if she doesn't improve soon, particularly if they can test her blood for Mareks, but there are a number of vets that will see chickens despite very limited experience who can be frustratingly unhelpful...

Sorry there are no easy answers or clear paths forward with this sort of thing. If she seems down and lethargic you could try putting her in a crate in the coop so she can see her flock but not be pecked by anyone. (Some chickens really don;t do well alone, and if she's got Mareks the others have also surely already been exposed.) Otherwise I'd just make sure she can rest comfortably and try to ensure she eats and drinks well, offering things like eggs or tuna and wet mashed pellets. Some people also make chicken slings which you might want to look into if this goes on for awhile.

Thank you again so much for the insight. We did take her to the vet with a doctor that specializes in avian species. We got the absolutely devastating news she is likely dealing with Marek’s. Absolutely heartbroken. We got our chicks from a hatchery, I had just assumed they had all been vaccinated. I feel just awful and so so guilty. Where does the disease come from if we haven’t introduced any new birds? Will likely have to put her down this week per vets recommendations, just beside myself and feel terrible for her.

 

[Razzlefrazzle]

Thank you again so much for the insight. We did take her to the vet with a doctor that specializes in avian species. We got the absolutely devastating news she is likely dealing with Marek’s. Absolutely heartbroken. We got our chicks from a hatchery, I had just assumed they had all been vaccinated. I feel just awful and so so guilty. Where does the disease come from if we haven’t introduced any new birds? Will likely have to put her down this week per vets recommendations, just beside myself and feel terrible for her.

I'm so sorry to hear that. Marek's is unfortunately very common (my vet told me to assume that every chicken carries the virus and that to keep a flock free from any exposure requires strict biosecurity) and silkies, for reasons unknown to me, are very susceptible. Even vaccination doesn't help 100%. Hopefully she is the only one to get sick/become symptomatic.

 

[silkielover3]

I'm so sorry to hear that. Marek's is unfortunately very common (my vet told me to assume that every chicken carries the virus and that to keep a flock free from any exposure requires strict biosecurity) and silkies, for reasons unknown to me, are very susceptible. Even vaccination doesn't help 100%. Hopefully she is the only one to get sick/become symptomatic.

Thank you, we’re hoping the same.